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4 England vs France World Rugby U20 Championship final talking points

England and France have been in celebratory mood in Cape Town at the World Rugby U20 Championship (Photos by World Rugby)

We’re set for a fascinating World Rugby U20 Championship final in Cape Town between England and France on Friday evening. New Zealand attempted to muscle in on the title proceedings, bagging the No1 semi-final ranking following their 80th-minute penalty kick pool win over French in Stellenbosch on July 4.

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However, the defending champions spectacularly settled that particular score just 10 days later and last Sunday’s 55-31 demolition of the Baby Blacks now has Sebastien Calvet’s team tipped as favourites to complete their four-in-a-row Championship title sequence.

Unbeaten England will have plenty to say about that at the iconic Cape Town Stadium, though. Their progress throughout 2024 has been exemplary under Mark Mapletoft and having clinched the Six Nations title with a barnstorming second-half performance away to France in Pau 18 weeks ago, they won’t fear the opposition as they look to win their first U20 Championship since 2016.

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HITS, BUMPS AND HANDOFFS! | The biggest collisions from the U20s World Championships

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HITS, BUMPS AND HANDOFFS! | The biggest collisions from the U20s World Championships

A high-scoring shootout is the expectation, although the forecasted rain could temper attacking ambition. Here are the RugbyPass talking points about an appetising all-northern hemisphere final in the heart of the southern hemisphere:

Slow starting England
A potentially crucial aspect should be the start England make, as they have been slow out of the blocks every time in South Africa, but the truth is their fans shouldn’t fret if they concede early yet again. They trailed Argentina by 0-14, the Junior Boks 0-7, and also gave up a first-minute try to Ireland last Sunday. Even in their runaway win over Fiji, they fell behind to a third-minute penalty even though the Islanders had lost a player to a first-minute yellow card.

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World Rugby U20 Championship
England U20
21 - 13
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France U20
All Stats and Data

The French, meanwhile, love an early try. They had two in seven minutes the last day against New Zealand, while their opening tries in previous outings versus Wales, the Kiwis and Spain came after seven, four and two minutes respectively.      

That’s a potent trend but what will give England every confidence if things don’t initially go to plan once more is they have developed a tremendous habit of finding a way, not just at this Championship but also the defiant manner in which they clung on when they last played France.

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They were 19-28 down just minutes into the second half after conceding a fourth try, but they ‘won’ the next 23 minutes of play 26-3.

In other words, unlike last year when they were blown away in the second half of their 31-52 semi-final loss to the French, they have learned an invaluable lesson since then about coping with adversity. Count them in when the going gets tough.

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The weight of experience
If adult first-team experience is a factor, England might as well not turn up for this age-grade final. Glancing through their starting XV, we estimate seven English players sharing 34 Premiership/Top 14/European appearances in 2023/24 – and most of that exposure was off the bench.

In contrast, nine of France’s XV have played Top 14/Pro D2 in 23/24, mostly as starters. Most prolific have been Grenoble hooker Barnabe Massa and Brive full-back Mathis Ferte, who respectively had 30 and 29 appearances, but the French also have Top 14 rookie stars in league semi-finalist Hugo Reus of La Rochelle and Toulouse title winner Mathis Castro-Ferreira.

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Blooding the kids early is very much the French way and it impacts their mindset, sub back-rower Brent Liufau of Pau telling RugbyPass: “The league is a good level and coming here (to the U20s), there is no pressure because we have that experience.”

England boss Mapletoft has refused to read significance into this difference in exposure, though. “There are pros and cons to it,” he reckoned. “Every country has got a different game model in terms of how they do things, how they are structured, the resources they have available. Often we get sidetracked by what other people are doing rather than actually focus on what you do.”

It’s each to their own essentially, but we’ll know late on Friday whose perspective carries more weight right now.

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Scrum idols
One aspect of English play that will please England Test boss Steve Borthwick is how expertly the U20s scrum coached by Nathan Catt has performed in Cape Town. They produced a masterclass last Sunday in pulverising Ireland, securing a 6-0 penalty count at the scrum that could easily have been more such was their dominance.

It won’t have escaped their attention that one area where France had some issues versus New Zealand was at the scrum and there were two penalties in quick succession awarded against them, evidence that will enthuse the English who hope to press home an advantage in this area.    

“It’s clear and obvious we have had a huge strength in that area over the course of the season… probably the pinnacle was Sunday in terms of how we got after Ireland. Clearly, they are very good players,” enthused Mapletoft about his props, whose semi-final dominance was all the more impressive as they had lost tighthead Billy Sela to a round-three knock versus the Junior Boks.

“You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out that’s probably an area, a massive area of strength for us, and probably an area where the senior England team could do with a bit more strength in depth with some younger players pushing through to put a bit of pressure on.

“It’s great for our senior group that we have some really good prospects… If you are going forwards on a regular basis in the scrum you must have something about you.” That’s quite the compliment for Asher Opoku-Fordjour and co.

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The joie factor
It was interesting how France skipper Reus suggested to RugbyPass in his pre-final interview that his squad love to play 20s because it is a very different style to what they have in the Top 14. “In the Top 14, the players are stronger, bigger, the impacts are more important but the play at U20 is quick. It needs to be quicker than in Top 14 so it’s different. It’s not the same rugby and we love this type of rugby… the more speed the better.”

That’s not to imply Reus and co are all joie at this level; there is plenty of structure to their play to help create the space that they have been exploiting with flair. In terms of attack at the Championship, France have had 49 linebreaks compared to England’s 37, while the French have also given up less linebreaks, 17 to 21.

Strengthening England’s hand in coping with this off-the-cuff entertainment heading into the final is playing Fiji in round two, according to skipper Finn Carnduff. “We have been pretty lucky to have faced Fiji already at this tournament. They are another team that can throw a spanner in the works and you have got to expect the unexpected, so we have had a taste of it.

“But this French team can hurt you off transition, loose ball, keeping the ball alive and keeping on top with the momentum they gain. We have to expect the unexpected but within our principles and stick to what we are good at.”

One aspect slightly in England’s favour is discipline. While overall the penalties conceded tally is much of a muchness, England conceding 47 in four games compared to France on 51, it is curious that despite how excellent their attack was in trouncing New Zealand last weekend, the French were hammered 18-9 on the penalty count and gave up two yellow cards to one red for the Kiwis.  

  • Click here to sign up to RugbyPass TV for free live coverage of matches from the 2024 World Rugby U20 Championship in countries that don’t have an exclusive local host broadcaster deal

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Comments

1 Comment
M
Mark 152 days ago

come on England

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f
fl 34 minutes ago
‘The problem with this year’s Champions Cup? Too many English clubs’

"Would I'd be think"

Would I'd be think.


"Well that's one starting point for an error in your reasoning. Do you think that in regards to who should have a say in how it's setup in the future as well? Ie you would care what they think or what might be more fair for their teams (not saying your model doesn't allow them a chance)?"

Did you even read what you're replying to? I wasn't arguing for excluding south africa, I was pointing out that the idea of quantifying someone's fractional share of european rugby is entirely nonsensical. You're the one who was trying to do that.


"Yes, I was thinking about an automatic qualifier for a tier 2 side"

What proportion of european rugby are they though? Got to make sure those fractions match up! 😂


"Ultimately what I think would be better for t2 leagues would be a third comp underneath the top two tournemnts where they play a fair chunk of games, like double those two. So half a dozen euro teams along with the 2 SA and bottom bunch of premiership and top14, some Championship and div 2 sides thrown in."

I don't know if Championship sides want to be commuting to Georgia every other week.


"my thought was just to create a middle ground now which can sustain it until that time has come, were I thought yours is more likely to result in the constant change/manipulation it has been victim to"

a middle ground between the current system and a much worse system?

47 Go to comments
f
fl 49 minutes ago
‘The problem with this year’s Champions Cup? Too many English clubs’

"Huh? You mean last in their (4 team) pools/regions? My idea was 6/5/4, 6 the max, for guarenteed spots, with a 20 team comp max, so upto 5 WCs (which you'd make/or would be theoretically impossible to go to one league (they'd likely be solely for its participants, say 'Wales', rather than URC specifically. Preferrably). I gave 3 WC ideas for a 18 team comp, so the max URC could have (with a member union or club/team, winning all of the 6N, and Champions and Challenge Cup) would be 9."


That's a lot of words to say that I was right. If (e.g.) Glasgow won the URC and Edinburgh finished 16th, but Scotland won the six nations, Edinburgh would qualify for the Champions Cup under your system.


"And the reason say another URC (for example) member would get the spot over the other team that won the Challenge Cup, would be because they were arguable better if they finished higher in the League."

They would be arguably worse if they didn't win the Challenge Cup.


"It won't diminish desire to win the Challenge Cup, because that team may still be competing for that seed, and if theyre automatic qual anyway, it still might make them treat it more seriously"

This doesn't make sense. Giving more incentives to do well in the Challenge Cup will make people take it more seriously. My system does that and yours doesn't. Under my system, teams will "compete for the seed" by winning the Challenge Cup, under yours they won't. If a team is automatically qualified anyway why on earth would that make them treat it more seriously?


"I'm promoting the idea of a scheme that never needs to be changed again"

So am I. I'm suggesting that places could be allocated according to a UEFA style points sytem, or according to a system where each league gets 1/4 of the spots, and the remaining 1/4 go to the best performing teams from the previous season in european competition.


"Yours will promote outcry as soon as England (or any other participant) fluctates. Were as it's hard to argue about a the basis of an equal share."

Currently there is an equal share, and you are arguing against it. My system would give each side the opportunity to achieve an equal share, but with more places given to sides and leagues that perform well. This wouldn't promote outcry, it would promote teams to take european competition more seriously. Teams that lose out because they did poorly the previous year wouldn't have any grounds to complain, they would be incentivised to try harder this time around.


"This new system should not be based on the assumption of last years results/performances continuing."

That's not the assumption I'm making. I don't think the teams that perform better should be given places in the competition because they will be the best performing teams next year, but because sport should be based on merit, and teams should be rewarded for performing well.


"I'm specifically promoting my idea because I think it will do exactly what you want, increase european rugyb's importance."

how?


"I won't say I've done anything compressive"

Compressive.

47 Go to comments
J
JW 52 minutes ago
‘The problem with this year’s Champions Cup? Too many English clubs’

Generally disagree with what? The possibility that they would get whitewashed, or the idea they shouldn't gain access until they're good enough?


I think the first is a fairly irrelevant view, decide on the second and then worry about the first. Personally I'd have had them in a third lvl comp with all the bottom dwellers of the leagues. I liked the idea of those league clubs resting their best players, and so being able to lift their standards in the league, though, so not against the idea that T2 sides go straight into Challenge Cup, but that will be a higher level with smaller comps and I think a bit too much for them (not having followed any of their games/performances mind you).

Because I don't think that having the possibility of a team finishing outside the quarter finals to qualify automatically will be a good idea. I'd rather have a team finishing 5th in their domestic league.

fl's idea, if I can speak for him to speed things up, was for it to be semifinalists first, Champions Cup (any that somehow didn't make a league semi), then Challenge's semi finalists (which would most certainly have been outside their league semi's you'd think), then perhaps the quarter finalists of each in the same manner. I don't think he was suggesting whoever next performed best in Europe but didn't make those knockouts (like those round of 16 losers), I doubt that would ever happen.


The problem I mainly saw with his idea (much the same as you see, that league finish is a better indicator) is that you could have one of the best candidates lose in the quarters to the eventual champions, and so miss out for someone who got an easier ride, and also finished lower in the league, perhaps in their own league, and who you beat everytime.

47 Go to comments
J
JW 1 hour ago
‘The problem with this year’s Champions Cup? Too many English clubs’

Well I was mainly referring to my thinking about the split, which was essentially each /3 rounded up, but reliant on WCs to add buffer.


You may have been going for just a 16 team league ranking cup?


But yes, those were just ideas for how to select WCs, all very arbitrary but I think more interesting in ways than just going down a list (say like fl's) of who is next in line. Indeed in my reply to you I hinted at say the 'URC' WC spot actually being given to the Ireland pool and taken away from the Welsh pool.


It's easy to think that is excluding, and making it even harder on, a poor performing country, but this is all in context of a 18 or 20 team comp where URC (at least to those teams in the URC) got 6 places, which Wales has one side lingering around, and you'd expect should make. Imagine the spice in that 6N game with Italy, or any other of the URC members though! Everyone talks about SA joining the 6N, so not sure it will be a problem, but it would be a fairly minor one imo.


But that's a structure of the leagues were instead of thinking how to get in at the top, I started from the bottom and thought that it best those teams doing qualify for anything. Then I thought the two comps should be identical in structure. So that's were an even split comes in with creating numbers, and the 'UEFA' model you suggest using in some manner, I thought could be used for the WC's (5 in my 20 team comp) instead of those ideas of mine you pointed out.


I see Jones has waded in like his normal self when it comes to SH teams. One thing I really like about his idea is the name change to the two competitions, to Cup and Shield. Oh, and home and away matches.

47 Go to comments
f
fl 2 hours ago
‘The problem with this year’s Champions Cup? Too many English clubs’

"Yes I was the one who suggested to use a UEFA style point. And I guessed, that based on the last 5 years we should start with 6 top14, 6 URC and 4 Prem."

Yes I am aware that you suggested it, but you then went on to say that we should initially start with a balance that clearly wasn't derived from that system. I'm not a mind reader, so how was I to work out that you'd arrived at that balance by dint of completely having failed to remember the history of the competition.


"Again, I was the one suggesting that, but you didn't like the outcome of that."

I have no issues with the outcome of that, I had an issue with a completely random allocation of teams that you plucked out of thin air.

Interestingly its you who now seem to be renouncing the UEFA style points system, because you don't like the outcome of reducing URC representation.


"4 teams for Top14, URC and Prem, 3 teams for other leagues and the last winner, what do you think?"

What about 4 each + 4 to the best performing teams in last years competition not to have otherwise qualified? Or what about a UEFA style system where places are allocated to leagues on the basis of their performance in previous years' competitions?

There's no point including Black Lion if they're just going to get whitewashed every year, which I think would be a possibility. At most I'd support 1 team from the Rugby Europe Super Cup, or the Russian Championship being included. Maybe the best placed non-Israeli team and the Russian winners could play off every year for the spot? But honestly I think its best if they stay limited to the Challenge Cup for now.

47 Go to comments
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