A 2025 overseas British & Irish Lions XV

Couple of questions related to Bristol and Black Ferns.

They were properly hammered and struggled to score many points at all in the two European matches preceding the demolition of Leicester. Was it lack of ambition in those matches or a better opponent? This Tigers mob has been less than the sum of their parts since their ugly GP win under Borthwick.

I went to Twickenham with a large group of parents and young ladies from Barnes RFC to watch NZ v England last season. The dads among us were deeply frustrated by how inflexible the Black Ferns were with their strategy to run and not kick and they were duly put to the sword.

Pretty clearly, there is more depth and quality in the England squad and, whilst on any given day (and with the help of a red card), NZ might sneak one the strategy can go horribly wrong given the level of passing and catching skill in the women's game. Was Smith very lucky and it's the wrong way to play big games or was he showing us the way forward? I'm not at all sure.

Interesting that Marcus Smith declined a big salary to join Bristol when you'd think Bristol's style would suit Marcus down to a T. I'm wondering if Bristol are too loose and maybe incompatible with Borthwick's designs for how he wants England to play, especially at 10, which may have influenced Marcus' decision.

Agree that it was disappointing to see Bristol perform so poorly against La Rochelle and Leinster. Weather and loss of McGinty played their part, but I don't think it's insurmountable that Bristol can one day start challenging the top European sides with their brand of open, expansive, running rugby.

It's incredible to see the boys playing like this. Back to the form that saw them finish on top of the regular season and beat Toulon to win the challenge cup. Ibitoye and Ravouvou doing a cracking Piutau/Radradra impression.

It's abundantly clear that Borthwick and Wigglesworth need to transform the England attack and incorporate some of the Bears way. Unfortunately until the Bears are competing in Europe, the old criticisms will still be used.. we failed to fire any punches against La Rochelle and Leinster which goes to show there is still work to do but both those sides are packed full of elite players so it's not the fairest comparison to expect Bristol to compete with them. I feel Bristol are on the way up though and the best is yet to come. Tom Jordan next year is going to be obscene.

Test rugby is obviously a different beast and does Borthwick have enough time with the players to develop the level of skill the Bears plays have? Even if he wanted to? We should definitely be able to see some progress, Scotland have certainly managed it. England aren't going to start throwing the ball around like that but England's attack looks prehistoric by comparison, I hope they take some inspiration from the clarity and freedom of expression shown by the Bears (and Scotland - who keep beating us, by the way!). Bristol have the best attack in the premiership, it'd be mad for England to ignore it because it doesn't fit with the Borthwick and Wigglesworth idea of how test rugby should be played. You gotta use what is available to you. Sadly I think England will try reluctantly to incorporate some of these ideas and end up even more confused and lacking identity than ever. At the moment England have two teams, they have 14 players and Marcus Smith. Marcus sticks out as a sore thumb in a team coached to play in a manner ideologically opposed to the way he plays rugby, does the Bears factor confuse matters further? I just have no confidence in Borthers and Wiggles.

Crazy to see the Prem with more ball in play than SR!

South Africa received 13 yellow cards in 13 matches; Ireland received 11 in 12; New Zealand received 11 in 14. The difference is pretty immaterial.

In terms of penalties, SA conceded 131 in 13 matches; England conceded 111 in 12. Considering England had the best record of anyone, SA are hardly far off the pace.

First, I can't remember who pointed out the obvious elephant in the room (a SA'n poster?), it's a terrible time to play rugby in the NH, and especially your pinnacle tournament. It's been terrible watching with seemingly all the games I wanted to watch being in the dark, hardly able to see what was going on. The Aviva was the only stadium I saw that had lights that could handle the miserable rain. If the global appeal is there, they could do a lot better having day games.

They other primary idea I thuoght would benefit EPCR most, was more content. The Prem could do with it and the Top14 could do with something more important than their own league, so they aren't under so much pressure to sell games. The quality over quantity approach.

Trim it down to two 16 team EPCR competitions, and introduce a third for playing amongst the T2 sides, or the bottom clubs in each league should simply be working on being better during the EPCR.

Champions Cup is made up of league best 15 teams, + 1, the Challenge Cup winner. Without a reason not to, I'd distribute it evenly based on each leauge, dividing into thirds and rounded up, 6 URC 5 Top14 4 English. Each winner (all four) is #1 rank and I'd have a seeding round or two for the other 12 to determine their own brackets for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. I'd then hold a 6 game pool, home and away, with consecutive of each for those games that involve SA'n teams. Preferrably I'd have a regional thing were all SA'n teams were in the same pool but that's a bit complex for this simple idea.

That pool round further finalises the seeding for knockout round of 16. So #1 pool has essentially duked it out for finals seeding already (better venue planning), and to see who they go up against 16, 15,etc etc. Actually I think I might prefer a single pool round for seeding, and introduce the home and away for Ro16, quarters, and semis (stuffs up venue hire). General idea to produce the most competitive matches possible until the random knockout phase, and fix the random lottery of which two teams get ranked higher after pool play, and also keep the system identical for the Challenge Cup so everthing is succinct. Top T2 side promoted from last year to make 16 in Challenge Cup

The thing I hate most is a two faced coach.

I think he's just trying to suggest theres a lot more opportunity there, so it is silly to treat them like outcasts when they could be playing for Australia. But I agree with you, that wouldn't have happened either way. Still, as JWH suggests, it's not a good look for Scotland and rugby.

So looking for something new as were more concerned with adults specifically, so I had a look at their EOY Financial Review.

The total number of clubs remains consistent, with a marginal increase of 1% from 1,161 to 1,167. 8.1.

A comparative analysis of verified data for 2022 and 2023 highlights a marginal decline of 1% in the number of female players, declining from 6,801 to 6,723. Additionally, the total number of players demonstrates an 8% decrease, dropping from 96,172 to 88,828.

So 80k+ adult males (down from 113k), but I'm not really sure when youth are involved with SAn clubs, or if that data is for some reason not being referenced/included. 300k male students however (200k in old wiki data).

He was developed in Melbourne and had a relatively brief stint there. I think he was possibly dropped out of the squad for the return of someone like To'omua (also a Melbourne local) in 2019 ahead of the RWC. But then he wasn't picked up by another Australian team and went to play in Japan when he only really seemed to play a hat full of top level games (maybe injured for long periods??) before he went on to Scotland. But it was only in Scotland that he started to get a lot of consistent game time and selection.

The thing is, no one talked about him being a missed opportunity in Australia before he left - a little like Mac Hansen. But he has been able to forge a top level career since leaving. Both men only had a handful (5 or 6?) games at Super Rugby level before they made a decision to leave (or had it made for them I suppose). Other countries have gone on to develop them and that is great for them and it is probably good for the global game as it means the best players are rising to the top - if not in their birth country than in another. I think there are a lot of issues with poor player development in Australia but I don't know if these two blokes are very good examples of it.