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AB Zondagh: 'To say that it was a difficult situation is an understatement'
Lyon scrum-half Baptiste Couilloud was among several notable names missing from the 42 selected by Fabien Galthie for France’s opening match of this year’s senior men’s Six Nations against Wales on January 31.
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Couilloud has scored eight tries in 13 Top 14 outings so far in this campaign, continuing a run of form that saw him touch down 21 times – including three for France, two of which came when he started for a France Development XV against Uruguay in July – last season.
It may appear that Couilloud and Toulon’s Baptiste Serin, France tour captain in July, were the unlucky standout nines in France, as Bordeaux’s Maxime Lucu and Racing 92’s Nolan Le Garrec beat them to the scrum-half slots remaining behind Antoine Dupont – as they had for the Autumn Nations Series Tests in November.
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But the Lyon nine was more likely ‘not in the frame’ this time, despite his string of impressive performances, according to his club’s attack coach AB Zondagh. “The French team have a specific style for how they want to play, and they are strong on certain key skills that a scrum-half needs to fulfill,” he said.
“He [Couilloud] is very explosive. He’s very fast. He understands the game very well. Lucky for France that they have so many good nines, that a player like this is struggling to get into the French team.”
It’s safe to assume similar thinking applies to Serin’s non-selection. It’s a structural rather than personal matter for the selectors at Marcoussis.
“I think there’s probably three or four scrum-halves sitting at home saying, ‘Jeez, I probably should have been in that squad’,” Zondagh said. “If you go back six or 10 years, [France] didn’t have this wealth of talent in that position. Sometimes you’re the perfect player caught in the wrong era.”
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Couilloud’s halfback partner at Lyon, Leo Berdeu, has more reason to be disappointed, Zondagh reckons, after France blew eight squad slots covering injury-hit prop positions, which meant fewer available places elsewhere. Les Bleus’ possible fly-halves in the Six Nations’ opener are Romain Ntamack, Matthieu Jalibert and the fullback-preferring Thomas Ramos.
Disappointment for Couilloud is potentially better short-term news for Lyon, who are 10th in the Top 14 after 14 rounds of 26, and head into a decisive final Challenge Cup pool match against Cheetahs at Stade Gerland on Saturday. The smart money is that he will be on the bench for this must-win game, with Martin Page-Relo expected to start.
“Preparation has been good,” Zondagh said. “We know this game is really important so that we can qualify. It’s been a good week so far, so I’m hoping it all runs smoothly up until the end.”
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A heavily rotated Lyon side fell to a heavy 52-24 defeat against URC side Connacht at Dexcom Stadium last weekend. “I don’t think any team thinks that they’re going to allow a team to score that many points against them,” Zondagh said. “I think it is unacceptable. The players have spoken among themselves, more so than the coaches because they understand the seriousness of the situation.
“Sometimes you can have one or two of these games in a season that are a bit of a shock to the system, but they can be, in retrospect, a turning point. So I’m hoping that’s what it will be for us.”
A run into the knockout phase of the Challenge Cup is a given, then, but what about the Top 14? After a poor run of five defeats in a row in October and November saw them slip to second-from-bottom, they have climbed back to 10th courtesy of back-to-back draws against Toulouse and at Racing 92, followed by a hard-earned 17-12 win over Perpignan.
The top six – the post-season play-off places – are a so-near, so-far 10 points away. But, Zondagh said, an unlikely title shot is not in the current calculations. “Top six is not something we’re speaking about,” he said. “For us, it’s about finding more consistency in the way we play. And then bit by bit, working towards better performances, which should lead to a better position on the log.”
What made that autumn slip particularly frustrating was that Lyon were in with a shout in a number of those games. They lost by three at Perpignan, by eight against Clermont, and were on the wrong end of the remarkable 38-49 scoreline at home to Bayonne.
“That Bayonne game was probably the game that broke the camel’s back,” Zondagh said. “But the one thing that we have done this year, which we didn’t do last year, is even when we play away and we lose, we don’t let go. In terms of what we see on the field and the effort they give, it’s a big change versus what we saw last year.
“I think we’ve really turned the corner in that sense. The next thing is the results. I think, maybe, the Racing game is the start of that.”
After hosting Cheetahs on Saturday, Lyon travel to Top 14 leaders Bordeaux a week later, before the Top 14 breaks for a fortnight as the senior men’s Six Nations kicks off.
The break, even as Lyon look to be returning to form, will be welcome, Zondagh said. “It’s a long season. Every break that we give the boys is calculated. They’re needed, especially with the length of the Top 14.
“If you want to survive in two competitions [the Top 14 and the Challenge Cup], you have to be very smart in terms of who you play and when and who you rest.
“That’s really a big juggling act and something that, if you get it right, you can at least compete in both competitions.”
“For the likes of Toulouse – where I know the inner workings – the number one is squad depth. You need a number one and a number two [in each position] that are virtually at the same level. And then your number three and four are competing for that third spot.”
Toulouse, Top 14 and Champions Cup title holders, are well ahead of the rest of the rugby field in France. Zondagh, who coached at Ernest Wallon between 2018 and 2021, believes few teams will ever have the resources that his former club has.
But he has high hopes for Lyon. “It’s a young club, especially in the Top 14. So it’s going to take time for the team to develop a structure where they’ve got a flow of young players coming through.
“The potential is there, but that structure still needs to be built up and streamlined.”
French clubs are increasingly seeking to follow Toulouse and tap seams of local talent. Zondagh argues they’re right to do so, even though not every club will have the same rich reserves as the 23-time French champions.
“It’s much better to produce players from the region who have a deep-rooted love for the club, who grew up here, who watched games here when they were kids. It breeds a different player.”
Zondagh – with stints at Sharks, Toulouse, and Scotland behind him – has coached some of the best in the game. But, though the country and city may vary, certain things stay the same. “My philosophy on coaching has never changed,” he said. “I believe you can develop the individual, no matter what his level.
“When I arrived at Toulouse, Antoine Dupont – one of the best players in the world – he still had things that he needed to work on. So I approach every single player the same. I analyse them. We sit down, we create a plan: ‘What are we going to work on? What are your strengths? How can we make you better?’.
“Then the key is to connect those players to see the same pictures and to react in the same way in different situations on the field.
“That’s the real magic. But it takes time. It doesn’t just happen overnight.”
After Toulouse, Zondagh joined Gregor Townsend’s Scotland set-up, on club boss Ugo Mola’s insistence. His stint in Edinburgh was short for personal reasons, and he returned to club rugby in France shortly before Rugby World Cup 2023.
But even that move was made harder by personnel changes at Stade Gerland. Xavier Garbajosa was in charge when Zondagh was hired as attack coach – but left the club before the South African had time to unpack his bags after flying over from Scotland.
“To say that it was a difficult situation is an understatement,” he said, wryly. “But, I think I’ll look back on my time here and say that I learned so much. I really learned a lot about management, about how to build a club.”
Garbajosa. Fabien Gengenbacher – now settling in, fulltime, to his role as sporting director. Jono Gibbes, on a part-time, part-remote consulting basis. And, now, Karim Ghezal. Zondagh has worked with four head coaches in a little over 18 months at Lyon.
Gibbes, Zondagh said, was ‘like a father figure’ during his stint in charge. And Ghezal has been, “a breath of fresh air – the perfect guy to get the players in the right frame of mind and give the right messages at the right time.”
Ghezal played and coached at Lyon, before leaving for France. He knows the club, and many of the players. And, said Zondagh, “He’s got a very good understanding of what they need in terms of motivation to produce the goods on the weekend.
“And then in terms of working with the staff, he hasn’t come in and said, ‘Okay, clean sweep, this is what we’re doing. We’re going with this and that’.
“He’s taken his time. He’s observed, he’s made incremental changes. But he’s really left us to continue doing what we’ve been doing, but with slight adjustments and putting a little bit of Ghezal spice to it.”
The past couple of seasons have not been easy for Lyon, or AB Zondagh. But situations change as corners are turned. That may just be starting to happen.
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