'Are you doing enough?': Mark Robinson questioned on rugby's influence and domestic violence

New Zealand Rugby CEO Mark Robinson has fronted a line of direct questions around the All Blacks and domestic violence while discussing the rugby culture in New Zealand.

The interview took place on Alice Snedden’s ‘Bad News’ show which also featured guests in sports journalist Dylan Cleaver, criminologist Dr Lynzi Armstrong and comedian/ex-schoolboy rugby player Joe Daymond.

Each individual added an essential perspective to the reality of rugby culture in New Zealand while exploring the deeper themes of toxic masculinity, silence culture, sexism, and how young male rugby players are shaped by growing up within the culture.

Snedden started her interview with Robinson by asking if he felt New Zealand Rugby (NZR) had a responsibility to the New Zealand public.

“Oh absolutely,” Robinson replied. “We have a great sense of duty, of care, to everyone that participates in our game; over 155,000 people around the country and then more broadly than that, people engaging with our teams and being spectators.

“We know that people take it incredibly seriously and are incredibly passionate about everything we do and that’s not just about the teams in black performing, that’s about the things we do off the field, choices we make as an organisation.

“We’re under constant scrutiny and we certainly accept that and we want to be engaging in those conversations.”

There was unanimous agreement by the show’s guests that rugby held a position of strong cultural influence in New Zealand as a whole, something Robinson emphasised his and NZR’s awareness of.

“We see rugby as having that ability to influence and change behaviours, and being a real force for good in a whole lot of areas where it can be a real powerful vehicle for helping change.”

The episode had a strong focus on the Respect and Responsibility Review, which was commissioned in 2017 following the Chiefs Super Rugby title celebrations where players were alleged to have inappropriately touched and licked a stripper as well as throwing alcohol and gravel at her.

Robinson said that the report had “held a mirror up to our faces around how we could certainly improve our environments and get better.”

Given the acknowledgement of rugby’s influence in the country and the nature of the sport’s expression of physicality, Snedden proposed that the All Blacks have potentially the biggest and most powerful platform when it comes to influencing change in the elements of New Zealand’s culture relevant to toxic masculinity.

This thought was echoed by criminologist Lynzi Armstrong who added that NZR should be asking themselves some questions around ‘how complicit are we?’ specifically in the culture of silence.

Snedden had a clear objective to discuss the “pressing issue” of domestic violence within New Zealand.

Pressing, as evidenced by the distressing statistics; in 2020, New Zealand police recorded 165,039 family violence investigations, while one in three women have experienced physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, the worst rate of any country in the developed world.

So came the candid query, of whether there is a reason the All Blacks have never fronted a campaign about domestic violence.

“No, I mean it’s something that we… that direct question, it’s something that we haven’t thought that directly about I suppose.

“So while I understand there may be a question around going straight to the All Blacks to…”

“Yes, that’s who I want,” Snedden interjected.

“Well we can obviously have conversations around that,” Robinson continued. “But I think our focus has been strong emphasis on creating greater awareness about issues and helping and supporting people.”

Journalist Dylan Cleaver suggested that perhaps the reason the All Blacks haven’t fronted a domestic violence campaign is because several players have themselves faced charges of domestic violence.

A question that Snedden posed bluntly to Robinson.

“Oh look, that’s not been, as I said before, we’re on a journey starting from a wide focus around the entire game approach here.

“Anything that compromises the reputation of the game, it concerns me.

“So, any of these incidences or anything that can happen around the game, I take that deeply personally…”

Snedden cut Robinson off at this moment to clarify that in addition to domestic violence cases having a negative impact on the image of the game, the CEO is also concerned about domestic violence for the simple reason that “violence is bad”.

“Absolutely, yeah.

“It’s not right, and then it’s not good for our game.”

As it stands, New Zealand Rugby is the only sports governing body in the nation who have failed to reach the gender quota on its board, resulting in a loss of government funding.

Snedden suggested it was another example of NZR not acting with the “necessary haste” to address the issues within the game and culture, asking Robinson at what point is acknowledgement needed that incremental change is not sufficient.

“Yeah, and I guess I would say that we are doing a huge amount in that space.

“Having conversations on a principal basis like we are today, we think is really healthy for the game.

“We think it shows a willingness to front these issues head-on and be part of the conversation.

“We understand that everyone won’t always agree with what we’re doing, but at the same time, we can only say again that we’re working really hard.”

This is not the first time that Snedden had attempted to interview New Zealand Rugby on the topic of the cultural issues with violence towards women.

In 2018 she visited Chiefs headquarters in a comedically provocative attempt to retrieve the money that was allegedly promised to the stripper for sexual acts two years earlier.

She was quickly invited to meet with the Chiefs CEO who quizzed her on her intentions, later Snedden would receive a call from NZR directly and then be contacted by her employer expressing concern as they had also been contacted by New Zealand Rugby.

The day’s “hostile communication” had left a lasting impression of intimidation from NZR.

Still, Snedden commended Robinson for taking the time to meet, unlike his predecessors, and expressed hope that if the two were to meet again in five years’ time, there would be less “we’re working on it” and more “here’s what we worked on.”

“Why don’t we do it sooner than that? See how we’re going.”

“Alright,” Snedden responded, exchanging a grin with the CEO. “Great, so the timeline’s tighter than that?”

“No no,” Robinson retorted. “I said ‘why don’t we do it sooner?’ Five years is a long time to wait. God, anything could happen.”