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'Billy is his main No8': The Rugby Pod on why Vunipola is still the man for Eddie Jones' England

(Photo by David Davies/PA Images via Getty Images)

The Rugby Pod show co-hosts Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton have jumped to the defence of Billy Vunipola amid claims that he is no longer the massive influence on England that he was previously. England’s style of play in their Autumn Nations Cup wins over Georgia, Ireland and Wales, along with last month’s Six Nations title win in Italy, have been taken to task for being limited in attack. 

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No8 Vunipola, so often the main England ball carrier in the Eddie Jones era, has been singled out for not being as generally prominent. However, the stats don’t suggest he has fallen off a cliff. 

He was still the busiest England ball carrier in the pack on the last three Saturdays, making 50 metres off 14 carries against Georgia, 29 metres off seven carries versus Ireland and then a whopping 83 metres from 17 carries against Wales. 

Video Spacer

Eddie Jones’ reaction to England’s win over Wales last weekend

Video Spacer

Eddie Jones’ reaction to England’s win over Wales last weekend

The perceived problem is that other pack ball carriers are coming close to his figures. For instance, Jack Willis managed 47 metres from ten carries in round one, Jamie George 24 metres from four round two carries, and Sam Underhill chipped in with 59 metres from eight carries in last weekend’s round three. 

Vunipola’s form has provided food for thought, but ex-England out-half Goode doesn’t think criticism of the No8 is acceptable given the team’s changed strategy in recent weeks under Jones.

Billy used to be such a standout performer because he was the main ball carrier, he was the only guy doing it,” said Goode. “Now England have got such a balance to their forward pack. You saw Mako (Vunipola) at the weekend carrying really well again. Underhill carries well, he made the break that effectively led to Henry Slade’s try off Maro’s inside ball. Maro’s carrying. 

“All these boys are going as good a job as Billy is. Billy is probably doing it a bit better at times but England aren’t as reliant getting over the gain line as they used to be when Billy was the go-to man. There is more of a balance to the actual ball carry from the front five. 

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“Jamie George another one, Kyle Sinckler can carry. They’re all proper big carriers that are sharing the workload. Maybe Eddie Jones was a bit of a genius when he put Tom Curry to No8 thinking one day we’re going to have all these back row choices and Billy will be under pressure. But Billy is his main No8. It will take something pretty astonishing for Eddie Jones not to pick Billy Vunipola at No8 this weekend against France and moving forward into the Six Nations.

“I don’t think he is under pressure. People are looking at him because maybe he isn’t playing at the level he was so dominant a couple of years ago. He has had a couple of arm breaks but maybe it’s because Underhill and Curry and other ball carriers are so phenomenal now.”

Co-host Hamilton, the ex-Scotland lock who was a teammate of Vunipola at Saracens, added about the England No8: “One thing I have noticed, and I don’t know whether it is a respect thing because he is related Taulupe Faletau, when he plays against him he is always a little bit off. 

“But Billy is a world-class player so we are judging Billy on what Billy was a couple of years ago and defensively teams are so much better in the last year. Look at Ireland against Georgia, they were getting absolutely smashed around the nine/ten channel. 

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“Billy is running into those channels where in years gone by you made yards all the time just because you are Billy Vunipola – you have got the size, you have got a slight step…. was Billy at the level last Saturday he has been at? No. 

“But you look at Curry, look at Underhill, what they bring is a different dimension to the game. Billy is there to carry the ball, to get England over the gain line, to get them on the front foot, but arguably England are playing a different way as well so it doesn’t suit him… the way the game is now it’s suited to defenders and breakdown. They are the players who are standing out.”

 

 

  

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David Campese names his Springbok world player of the year winner

Why is Joe Schmidt the best option for Australia? (LONG READ)


An essay for @OJohn with love from South Africa.


OJohn keeps banging on about kiwis and Saffers and everyone else seeking to undermine and bring down Australian rugby… Blah, Blah, Blah. It’s boring and not worth responding too 99 days out of 100.


He misses the point completely that Australians either are or are not the masters of their own destiny. So to blame anyone else but themselves for what the state of Australian rugby is in - is hypocritical.


But recently, Australia has shown signs of life. Personally, I always believed they would be back at some point. At the beginning of this year I predicted that the wallabies would bounce back this year. I predicted that they would overtake England in the world rankings. I am predicting that they could finish second in the RC, could win the Lions series and could make it to a RWC final at home.


I tend to get ahead of myself when I’m excited... Ask my wife. But forgive me for getting excited about the Wallabies looking good! Is it so bad?


Like OJohn, I believe that Australia’s lands abound with natures gifts, including athletic specimens across any sporting code the Aussies compete in. It’s one of the reasons most of us don’t like Aussies. They win sh1t. Regularly. And look smug when they do...


But back to OJohn. And his banging on about the need for Australia to have an Australian coach. Here are a few highlights of his argument:


Several times I've given a list of half a dozen Australian coaches who would be more Australian than Schmidt and just as successful.

Tell me which Australian coaches would be acceptable to coach the All Blacks ......?

Because South Africans and Kiwis and Welshmen and Scotsman are all s.... scared that if an immensely talented and athletic team like Australia is ever able to harness nationalistic Australian passion with an Australian coach, you'll all be s.c.r.e.w.e.d.


And then finally – the list of 6 🥴:


Ewen McKenzie, Less Kiss, Stephen Larkham, Jim McKay, David Nucifora, Scott Wisenthal, Ben Mowen, Rod Kafer, Mick Byrne, John Manetti, Jason Gilmore, Dan McKellar.

Plus, a special request:


Keep in mind Rod MacQueen never won a Super Rugby title before he was appointed Wallaby coach but he ended up the greatest rugby coach the world has ever seen. Better than Erasmus even. Who is probably the next best.

Right. I don’t care about the tinfoil hat theories. I want to assess OJohn’s list and determine whether any of them fit the mold of a Rod Macqueen.

 

Like Rod Macqueen the following world cup winning coaches never won a Super Rugby Title:


·       David Kirk, 1987 (17 appearances for New Zealand)

·       Kitch Kristie, 1995

·       Rod Macqueen, 1999

·       Clive Woodward, 2003 (21 Appearance for England)

·       Jake White, 2007 (School Teacher)

·       Graham Henry, 2011 (School Teacher)

·       Steve Hansen, 2015 (Policeman)

·       Rassie Erasmus, 2019 (36 Appearances for South Africa)

·       Jacques Nienaber, 2023 (Physiotherapist).


I couldn't find out what Rod or Kitch did other than coach.


The only coach who has won a Super title and a World Cup?

·       Bob Dwyer, 1991 (A Tahs man wouldn’t you know!)


In fact coaches that have won super rugby titles have not won world cups. Robbie Deans. Heyneke Meyer to name just two.


I know I’m being childish, but I needed to bring this list in somehow because it’s quite obvious that whatever these coaches did before they became international level coaches is largely immaterial. Or is it?


Interestingly Ewan McKenzie (A Tah Man!) has won a Super title. And despite being a Tah Man made it into OJohn’s list. That’s two strikes for Ewan Mckenzie based on OJohn’s criteria so far. Not to mention his 50% win rate as head coach of the Wallabies between 2013 and 2014 (and the laundry list of off the field fcuk ups that swirled around the team at the time).


So Ewan is out.


I find it interesting that, as we speak, eight out of the ten top ranked men’s teams are coached by former international players:

1.      South Africa, Rassie Erasmus (36 appearances for South Africa)

2.      Ireland, Andy Farrell (8 appearances for England)

3.      New Zealand, Scott Robertson (23 appearances for New Zealan)

4.      France, Fabien Galthie (64 appearances for France)

5.      Argentina, Felipe Contemponi (87 appearances for Argentina)

6.      Scotland, Gregor Townsend (82 appearances for Scotland)

7.      England, Steve Borthwick (57 appearances for England)

8.      Australia, Joe Schmidt (School Teacher)

9.      Fiji, Michael Byrne (Aussie Rules Player)

10.  Italy, Gonzalo Quesada (38 appearances for Argentina).


It would appear as though we have entered an era where successful international coaches, largely, have played rugby at international level in the professional era. Or are ex school teachers. Much like Jake White and Graham Henry! Or a policeman.

 

Back to OJohn’s List. That leaves us with:


·       Less Kiss, (I like the look of)

·       Stephen Larkham, (I like the look of)

·       Jim McKay, (Very little to write home about)

·       David Nucifora, (Too old)

·       Scott Wisenthal, (I literally can’t find anything on him on the Google).

·       Ben Mowen, (Too young, no coaching experience)

·       Rod Kafer, (No coaching experience)

·       Mick Byrne, (He’s coaching the Fijians, Aussie rules!)

·       John Manetti, (Can’t find him on the google)

·       Jason Gilmore, (Seems to be working through the ranks, coaching Wallabies A)

·       Dan McKellar, (Not much to write home about, but could be an option).


Applying some logic, I would say the following are viable options based on age, experience in coaching AND the fact that they have played rugby for Australia in the professional era:

·       Less Kiss, (I like the look of)

·       Stephen Larkham, (I like the look of)

·       Jason Gilmore, (Seems to be working through the ranks, coaching Wallabies A)


After having done all this research, I think it’s fair to say that none of these three have the same pedigree as Joe Schmidt, the teacher. Who took a sh1tty Ireland team to no.1. Won a few 6 Nations and helped get the All Blacks to a world cup final in 2023.


Joe’s the best option for now. But if Kiss, Larkham and Gilmore are the business for the future for Australia get them in now as assistants to Joe and stop moaning!!


Errors and Ommissions Excepted. Mispelling of names is OJohn's fault.

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