Challenge Cup : le LOU finit par croquer le Zebre

I've started an investigation into Jordies role and use this week. I started by watching his RWC Final effort again (actually I watched it to count Frizell's defensive impact) and in that game his first contributions were one of the first receiver flick backs, then a no look pop, that quick chip for Ardie, a solid crash ball, and carry to the line and pop for Rieko to break through, and then into the second half he had another good crash ball (stopped watching at 58' when SF went off). I know it won't be the same under Razor because the first receiver flick backs have solely been a duty of a few specific forwards, but as I've already shown, its not likely he constant crashed it up under Razor I don't think.

He truly was the complete footballer by the time he retired from the ABs.

Proctor does look like someone who has this ability, it's one of ALBs better abilities, and is what this team has been missing most. I hope others can show it next year, I think Aumua is actually fairly skilled in this ability, more so than Ennor or McLeod anyway, I really like Sullivan when he gets the chance (would be a good signing for Chiefs as he'd get the wing spot and good opportunity at center) in midfield. I've got a lot of time for Lam's performances in midfield as well, thought he played well at center in the eoyt but not sure he has this skill and I'd probably prefer him as the 12 if I was a Blues fan. Despite Tele'a being a solid center in the Bunch mold I think he has some deft passing skills too, could be worth a watch.

The chances of even getting 15 games next year to earn selection, let alone ones of such quality, are exactly zero.

You can certainly make up for size with talent or whatever, that's for sure, but talent isn't dependent on size, so size is undisputedly beneficial (until you go overboard like Nick Bishop and want someone like Cale to increase from 105 to 115kg).

Ardie is a few kg lighter than Cale because he is shorter (but using your lower center of gravity is a skill that allows lighter players to compete) and you might not notice it, no, but the 10kg different between Jordie and Andre at 12 is critical at determining what strategies are successful. As is mauling for teams with tall players like Skelton or Meafou, who are therefor able to carry much more weight.

But you're probably only still arguing about your view people put too much on height and weight, and I agree with that.

"First off, I would start at the bottom, and I'd probably make the two divisions identical."

what does this mean?

"What happened last year is irrelevant, any model or distribution needs to be taken with the future in mind, and that is going to likely mean weaker English teams (when the comp expands again)"

What a bizarre thing to say. You have to let teams qualify on merit, not based on how you assume they will do next season. English teams do well in the champions cup.

"First I think qualificatin has to be incentive based, so none of the worst teams qualify"

Completely agree.

"Then theres a myriad of cool wildcard tricks to balance things out further"

every wildcard idea you go on to suggest is terrible. If you for one moment thought any of them are good then you should probably get a lobotomy.

It's hard to say Barry. I'm not certain Mo'unga would have been preferrable over Dmac to the way we played. Mo'unga is more like Pendragrast, a league first five. Dmac is a traditional 1st who feeds his outsides, not taking the gaps/running lines like we saw off Jordie last weekend, or Mo'unga against Ireland.

That said, he would have been a huge benefit for when Dmac got rested or Razor wanted to try something different, in place fo Beauden.

But in relation to your discussion with JD, the circumstance is no different than Ireland not being able to select their stars in France, Farrell with England, or France requiring Frisch to return/sign locally before he was selected.

That's a change for Ireland is it? What do you think is behind that? Are the top ups just for players that get offered big million dollar (well 500k pound for you I suppose) contracts?

But yep, I assume with the URC that has probably dictated that (SA has done the same), with money possibly going straight to the teams now?

We're not criticizing Ardie for this of course but the parallel that was being made was to the hindrance to development of the side. If you remember we played Ardie at blindside specifically because Read was captain and thought undropable.

You can think of his selection as causing someone like Sotutu (when he quite rightly should have been benched early in the season and caused Razor to change his loosie makeup), who could prove unplayable with the right selections around him, from leaving the country and doing the same against us instead, or slowing the development of young players like Sititi.

Others have already clearly made the point re your reference to him being the best this year, I was just expressing the another picture that actually needs more attention. Youre right, he could have been the best forward on the northern tour at least (thanks to constant opportunity), but at what cost?

Your talking about a team who hunted Benji Marshall, you're not doing your point any favours.

Same team with BB were hopeless last year. This year the won the competition without him.