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Champions Cup: Is It Too Early To Start Dreaming Of An All-Ireland Final?

Charles Piutau to represent Tonga at the RWC

After two rounds of European Champions Cup action each of the five pools are in varying states of disarray. James Harrington analyses the table to try and find some meaning in it all.

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Two rounds into the Champions Cup, and looking at the tables you could almost convince yourself that it’s all over for several sides backed to make it out of their pools.

Northampton are bottom of Pool 4; Toulon five points behind pace-setters Saracens in Pool 3; Toulouse finally ended a five-match European losing streak on Sunday but still can’t buy a win in Pool 2; Racing 92 are rooted to the bottom of Pool 1.

Meanwhile, it seems to be looking good for the Irish sides. Connacht, of all teams, are at the top of Pool 2; Munster’s emotional win over Glasgow has put them top of Pool 1; Leinster are in pole position in Pool 4.

Tempting though it may be, it is too early to write off pre-tournament favourites. And it’s far too soon for the Irish to dream of an all-Ireland final. About the only certainty is Italian makeweights Zebre finishing way off the pace at the bottom of Pool 2. It will be a surprise if they even get a point.

Northampton were humiliated by Castres at the weekend, but they edged a tense affair against Montpellier the week before. Their next two games, home and away against Leinster, are vital. A big win at home in early December, and their tournament is back on track. The key match in Pool 4 now looks to be the Irish side’s trip to Stade Pierre Antoine to play Castres in January.

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Wasps, who are stalking Connacht in the table and who held their nerve and their shape to pick up a deserved draw in a brutal encounter at Toulouse, will decide the Pro12 side’s fate in both sides’ next two games. Meanwhile, Toulouse’s next two are against Zebre, who have shipped 20 tries and 134 points in their opening two games. There’s more chance of Cyprus ending the All Blacks winning run than of the four-time European champions losing either of those matches.

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Clermont, with two bonus-point wins from two look certain to make it out of Pool 5, even ahead of a difficult double-header against Ulster. The Top 14 leaders took their revenge against the side that dumped them out of last year’s continental competition – domestic rivals Bordeaux – in an 11-try thriller at Stade Marcel Michelin. With that ghost finally buried, they have, if not an entire foot, at least one toe in the quarter finals.

Racing 92, meanwhile, lost at Leicester on Saturday, but like current Pool 1 leaders Munster have only played one game following the untimely death of the Irish side’s coach Anthony Foley hours before the two sides were due to meet in Paris. The two sides’ problem now lies in finding a slot to play that postponed game.

Of all the French sides, Toulon are in the deepest trouble. One win from two leaves them second in Pool 3, but they were far from convincing in limping to a 15-5 win at Sale last weekend. They need a big win over Scarlets at Stade Mayol in early December, then to pick up at least a point from their trip to Wales the following week.

With Saracens continuing to set the European rugby standard, the best Toulon can hope for is to sneak into the last eight in a best losers’ slot. That would mean a tough quarter-final draw for the three-time champions of Europe.

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Oh no, not him again? 2 hours ago
England internationals disagree on final play execution vs All Blacks

Okay, so we blew it big time on Saturday. So rather than repeating what most people have all ready said, what do I want to see from Borthwick going forward?


Let's keep Marcus Smith on the pitch if he's fit and playing well. I was really pleased with his goal kicking. It used to be his weakness. I feel sympathy for George Ford who hadn't kicked all match and then had a kick to win the game. You hear pundits and commentators commend kickers who have come off the bench and pulled that off. Its not easy. If Steve B continues to substitute players with no clear reason then he is going to get criticised.


On paper I thought England would beat NZ if they played to their potential and didn't show NZ too much respect. Okay, the off the ball tackles certainly stopped England scoring tries, but I would have liked to see more smashing over gainlines and less kicking for position. Yes, I also know it's the Springbok endorsed world cup double winning formula but the Kiwi defence isn't the Bok defence, is it. If you have the power to put Smith on the front foot then why muzzle him? I guess what I'm saying is back, yourself. Why give the momentum to a team like NZ? Why feed the beast? Don't give the ball to NZ. Well d'uh.


Our scrum is a long term weakness. If you are going to play Itoje then he needs an ogre next door and a decent front row. Where is our third world class lock? Where are are realible front row bench replacements? The England scrum has been flakey for a while now. It blows hot and cold. Our front five bench is not world class.


On the positive side I love our starting backrow right now. I'd like to see them stick together through to the next world cup.


Anyway, there is always another Saturday.

7 Go to comments
C
CO 3 hours ago
Scott Robertson responds to criticism over All Blacks' handling errors

Robertson is more a manager of coaches than a coach so it comes down to intent of outcomes at a high level. I like his intent, I like the fact his Allblacks are really driving the outcomes however as he's pointed out the high error rates are not test level and their control of the game is driving both wins and losses. England didn't have to play a lot of rugby, they made far fewer mistakes and were extremely unlucky not to win.


In fact the English team were very early in their season and should've been comfortably beaten by an Allblacks team that had played multiple tests together.


Razor has himself recognised that to be the best they'll have to sort out the crisis levels of mistakes that have really increased since the first two tests against England.


Early tackles were a classic example of hyper enthusiasm to not give an inch, that passion that Razor has achieved is going to be formidable once the unforced errors are eliminated.


That's his secret, he's already rebuilt the passion and that's the most important aspect, its inevitable that he'll now eradicate the unforced errors. When that happens a fellow tier one nation is going to get thrashed. I don't think it will be until 2025 though.


The Allblacks will lose both tests against Ireland and France if they play high error rates rugby like they did against England.


To get the unforced errors under control he's going to be needing to handover the number eight role to Sititi and reset expectations of what loose forwards do. Establish a clear distinction with a large, swarthy lineout jumper at six that is a feared runner and dominant tackler and a turnover specialist at seven that is abrasive in contact. He'll then need to build depth behind the three starters and ruthlessly select for that group to be peaking in 2027 in hit Australian conditions on firm, dry grounds.


It's going to help him that Savea is shifting to the worst super rugby franchise where he's going to struggle behind a beaten pack every week.


The under performing loose forward trio is the key driver of the high error rates and unacceptable turn overs due to awol link work. Sititi is looking like he's superman compared to his openside and eight.


At this late stage in the season they shouldn't be operating with just the one outstanding loose forward out of four selected for the English test. That's an abject failure but I think Robertson's sacrificing link quality on purpose to build passion amongst the junior Allblacks as they see the reverential treatment the old warhorses are receiving for their long term hard graft.


It's unfortunately losing test matches and making what should be comfortable wins into nail biters but it's early in the world cup cycle so perhaps it's a sacrifice worth making.


However if this was F1 then Sam Cane would be Riccardo and Ardie would be heading into Perez territory so the loose forwards desperately need revitalisation through a rebuild over the next season to complement the formidable tight five.

28 Go to comments
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