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England scupper hopes for an unofficial fourth Lions test

The prospect of an unofficial “ fourth” Lions test against the All Blacks appears to have been scuppered by England’s decision not to release  players for the Barbarians’ fixture against New Zealand on November 4.

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The Barbarians had hoped that the match at Twickenham could be elevated to the status of an unofficial fourth Test to Lions tour, which concluded on Saturday with the series against the All Blacks drawn 1-1. Barbarians insiders were convinced that England head coach Eddie Jones was ready to support the match by releasing key Lions players but an edict has been issued by the Rugby Football Union making it clear they are going to be party poopers.”England players will be focusing on preparing for our matches ahead of the Old Mutual Wealth Series and will not be released for the Barbarians fixture,” a Rugby Football Union spokesman said.

The Barbarians revealed they would be looking to open discussions with the home unions in the hope of securing release for their Lions. “We are going to assemble an extremely strong team for this historic game at Twickenham,” a Barbarians spokesman said. “We hope it will include players involved in the exceptional Lions series with the All Blacks. The players will get the chance to face New Zealand for a fourth time this year. We have reached an agreement with Premiership Rugby, who have been very supportive about player release. We will talk with the home unions about access to players.”

As England stars will already have reported for international duty that weekend under the terms of the agreement between clubs and country, Premiership Rugby’s consent was not needed for their involvement in the match.

England had wanted to stage their own fixture at Twickenham against the All Blacks on November 4, only for negotiations to break down. They are due to meet for the first time in four years in November 2018.

As the debate over the feasibility of  the Barbarians game becoming a fourth test continues, Saracens owner Nigel Wray has asked the question: “Why don’t the All Blacks play the Lions in a series in the UK?” He is being serious and believes the financial windfall for all concerned would make it an idea hard to turn down.

Wray said: “The question I ask is why don’t the All Blacks play the Lions over here in major stadia like Wembley, Twickenham, Cardiff, Dublin and Murrayfield? You could have warm up games with the top teams from each of the Home Unions; Munster, Saracens, Ospreys and Glasgow. Let’s not pussy foot around, we are talking about two big commercial organisations. When people say it is not about the money they actually mean it is about the money.

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“ Saracens provided seven players and we cannot be accused not supporting the Lions. However, we can’t go on as we are at the moment and we need to sit down and organise a new deal and in any other industry if you are using someone else’s players they you do a deal because it is a fantastic brand. It needs to be well run and probably isn’t at the moment We probably get £60,000 for each player who went with the Lions but now, the agents for those guys, will be coming to me and pointing out their market value has gone up and will want better deals.”

 

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J
JW 3 hours ago
'Passionate reunion of France and New Zealand shows Fabien Galthie is wrong to rest his stars'

Ok, managed to read the full article..

... New Zealand’s has only 14 and the professional season is all over within four months. In France, club governance is the responsibility of an independent organisation [the Ligue Nationale de Rugby or LNR] which is entirely separate from the host union [the Fédération Française de Rugby or FFR]. Down south New Zealand Rugby runs the provincial and the national game.

That is the National Provincial Championship, a competition of 14 representative union based teams run through the SH international window and only semi professional (paid only during it's running). It is run by NZR and goes for two and a half months.


Super Rugby is a competition involving 12 fully professional teams, of which 5 are of New Zealand eligibility, and another joint administered team of Pacific Island eligibility, with NZR involvement. It was a 18 week competition this year, so involved (randomly chosen I believe) extra return fixtures (2 or 3 home and away derbys), and is run by Super Rugby Pacific's own independent Board (or organisation). The teams may or may not be independently run and owned (note, this does not necessarily mean what you think of as 'privately owned').


LNR was setup by FFR and the French Government to administer the professional game in France. In New Zealand, the Players Association and Super Rugby franchises agreed last month to not setup their own governance structure for professional rugby and re-aligned themselves with New Zealand Rugby. They had been proposing to do something like the English model, I'm not sure how closely that would have been aligned to the French system but it did not sound like it would have French union executive representation on it like the LNR does.

In the shaky isles the professional pyramid tapers to a point with the almighty All Blacks. In France the feeling for country is no more important than the sense of fierce local identity spawned at myriad clubs concentrated in the southwest. Progress is achieved by a nonchalant shrug and the wide sweep of nuanced negotiation, rather than driven from the top by a single intense focus.

Yes, it is pretty much a 'representative' selection system at every level, but these union's are having to fight for their existence against the regime that is NZR, and are currently going through their own battle, just as France has recently as I understand it. A single focus, ala the French game, might not be the best outcome for rugby as a whole.


For pure theatre, it is a wonderful article so far. I prefer 'Ntamack New Zealand 2022' though.

The young Crusader still struggles to solve the puzzle posed by the shorter, more compact tight-heads at this level but he had no problem at all with Colombe.

It was interesting to listen to Manny during an interview on Maul or Nothing, he citied that after a bit of banter with the All Black's he no longer wanted one of their jersey's after the game. One of those talks was an eye to eye chat with Tamaiti Williams, there appear to be nothing between the lock and prop, just a lot of give and take. I thought TW angled in and caused Taylor to pop a few times, and that NZ were lucky to be rewarded.

f you have a forward of 6ft 8ins and 145kg, and he is not at all disturbed by a dysfunctional set-piece, you are in business.

He talked about the clarity of the leadership that helped alleviate any need for anxiety at the predicaments unfolding before him. The same cannot be said for New Zealand when they had 5 minutes left to retrieve a match winning penalty, I don't believe. Did the team in black have much of a plan at any point in the game? I don't really call an autonomous 10 vehicle they had as innovative. I think Razor needs to go back to the dealer and get a new game driver on that one.

Vaa’i is no match for his power on the ground. Even in reverse, Meafou is like a tractor motoring backwards in low gear, trampling all in its path.

Vaa'i actually stops him in his tracks. He gets what could have been a dubious 'tackle' on him?

A high-level offence will often try to identify and exploit big forwards who can be slower to reload, and therefore vulnerable to two quick plays run at them consecutively.

Yes he was just standing on his haunches wasn't he? He mentioned that in the interview, saying that not only did you just get up and back into the line to find the opposition was already set and running at you they also hit harder than anything he'd experienced in the Top 14. He was referring to New Zealands ultra-physical, burst-based Super style of course, which he was more than a bit surprised about. I don't blame him for being caught out.


He still sent the obstruction back to the repair yard though!

What wouldn’t the New Zealand rugby public give to see the likes of Mauvaka and Meafou up front..

Common now Nick, don't go there! Meafou showed his Toulouse shirt and promptly got his citizenship, New Zealand can't have him, surely?!?


As I have said before with these subjects, really enjoy your enthusiasm for their contribution on the field and I'd love to see more of their shapes running out for Vern Cotter and the like styled teams.

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