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Everyone is saying the same thing after agonising England loss

A crestfallen George Ford - PA

England head coach Steve Borthwick faced intense scrutiny following a narrow 24-22 loss to New Zealand at Allianz Stadium, with many questioning his decision to replace fly-half Marcus Smith with George Ford late in the game.

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Ford’s introduction proved costly, as he missed a one-on-one tackle on Mark Telea as he scored a crucial try before failing to capitalize on two late opportunities to secure victory with two kicks at goal.

England had fought hard to keep pace with the All Blacks but Telea’s second try shifted the momentum in New Zealand’s favour.

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However, Steve Borthwick’s side were given a lifeline in the closing moments after Anton Lienert-Brown’s dangerous tackle on Theo Dan awarded Ford a chance to edge his team ahead. With a 77th-minute penalty, Ford struck the right upright.

A knock-on from the All Blacks saw England get a short-range scrum moments later but Ford’s attempted drop-goal sailed wide, dashing England’s hopes of a comeback in the Autumn Nations Series opener.

The decision to bench Smith – who had been controlling the game well – drew criticism from fans and pundits alike. Former England fly-half Andy Goode voiced the sentiment of many, tweeting: “ I’m not sure about taking Marcus Smith off when he was on fire and one missed tackle ended up being the difference… When is Steve Borthwick just going to give Marcus Smith his backing for the whole 80? Back the man, he’s class and shouldn’t have been taken off.”

Rugby podcaster Mike Cooper wrote: “Well, England have properly butchered that one. Borthwick needs a proper examination to figure out why you would take off your best performing player to try and cling on against the All Blacks. Earl brainless no-arms tackle pivotal too. Close losses no longer good enough.”

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Former All Blacks fly-half Lima Sopoaga wrote: “If I’m Marcus Smith I’m spewing,” while retired Fiji and Leicester Tigers winger Nemani Nadolo said: “Crazy old game.. crazy to bring Marcus Smith off.. I thought the energy changed when he went off?”

Another rugby account wrote: “Changes for the sake of it cost England. Marcus Smith was having a good game and probably would have nailed the penalty/drop goal. Never understand why Borthwick decides to effectively park the bus with 10 mins to go.”

Another account said: “Why on earth would you sub Marcus Smith when he was playing immaculately? A senseless choice of sub that cost us the game. Of all unusual substitutions England Rugby fans have ever seen made, that one truly takes the cake. Bizarre decision, with pressure heaped on Ford.”

The match had been fuelled by pre-game controversy, with England prop Joe Marler dismissing the haka as “ridiculous” and calling for it to be “binned.” While the fireworks expected from the All Blacks were slow to materialize, they erupted in the dying minutes.

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66 Comments
J
JK 15 days ago

I wish I was South African?....

B
Bull Shark 16 days ago

I’d love to be a fly on the wall at the next England team meeting.


Reckon Felix Jones will keep his camera off ”to save bandwidth”.

S
Saintsrugby 16 days ago

Comments about England being offside are wide of the mark. NZ tackling players off the ball was only picked up 3 times. The ref was lenient. Plus the yellow should have been a red head on head contact. Let's not forget NZ have played a number of matches together prior to this fixture. So the poor ball handling wasn't down to rustiness but good England pressure

T
Tom 16 days ago

The yellow incident was a farce. Ref claimed it wasn't fowl play cuz he'd just given someone a yellow and didn't want to send NZ down to 13. Then when the TMO said he could swap who he sent to the bin, suddenly he said it met the yellow card threshold and swapped the cards over haha.


Not complaining about the result, NZ were much better than England but that was some dodgy AF reffing!

D
DarstedlyDan 16 days ago

A rush D always lives on the border of being offside, and England's is no exception. Take a look at Jordan's try - the English 14 was a mile offside - he was barely behind NZ's last foot, let alone England's. Not a criticism of England - if you're allowed to get away with it, then do it. And pretty much every team these days goes offside when defending near their own line.


Agree with you that the ABs tackled too much off the ball - a lack of concentration. Wonder also if the ALB yellow-card tackle was I think a result of him having head-contact moments before - not sure he was quite with it as the tackled player was quite a way from the ball.

L
Lickmyshitta 17 days ago

The All Blacks didn’t win that game the english lost and I’m buggered if I know how.

The All Blacks ball handling skills were abysmal, so many penalties and england failed to capitalise.

If smith had stayed on I think it probably would’ve been a different result, the dude was on fire.

J
JWH 17 days ago

England were offside the whole game, forcing errors, but yes, at times it was poor. I have to say it is mainly the backline, forwards were unbelievable in contact, getting arms free and drawing their man.


Smith was okay this game, had his ups and downs. He shouldn't have attempted either of those drop goals, and should've had the balls to go to the corner when they had some of those penalties. He also didn't setup any tries for his team, the only one being a lucky-offside-ref-in-the-way-14-point-who-are-you-passing-to try

L
Lickmyshitta 17 days ago

Have absolutely no idea how the All Blacks won that game, their ball handling skills were atrocious they were playing worse than a pack of schoolgirls playing scrag.

I honestly don’t like england and hate losing to them more than losing to just about any other country…., but hahahahahahahaha serves you bloody well right for disrespecting the haka.

England was by far the better team on the day and the ball handling skills of the All Blacks was absolutely pitiful and they should never have won.

I think Razor was an awesome coach when coaching the crusaders but for some reason he just hasn’t quite got the knack of it anymore, at the moment anyway.

The All Blacks should never let Leon MacDonald go they should have sat them both down and told them to sort their shit out as it would have been a far superior All Black team playing on the day compared to the one we saw.

There were some bad decisions favouring the poms but the worst decision was by the english coach late in the game when he subbed out the halfback.

In reality the All Blacks didn’t win it was england lost and I still can’t figure how.

J
JW 17 days ago

Good game from England.


It was funny listening to some of their comms how they thought they should have been better though, or had better results lol

Ford’s introduction proved costly, as he missed a one-on-one tackle on Mark Telea

That's the coachs fault for putting the other teams best attackers up against your worst defenders. He didn't even miss the tackle did he, just went over in it?

The decision to bench Smith – who had been controlling the game well – drew criticism from fans and pundits alike

They need to think about the big picture. It's for the better of the squad, Smith might go down with injury and not play the rest of the tour. Bringing Ford on turned out to be a tactically astute move, luck just wasn't on their side.


Fans need to be more concerned about the lack of ability to construct any tries, that can't all be on the halfback?

R
RW 17 days ago

Everyone is saying the same thing?

I'm saying hahaha

L
Lickmyshitta 17 days ago

I’m thinking the same thing

F
FW 18 days ago

I watched the test and my humble view is that the ABs was poor England's defence pretty good but............In conclution a very average test. Nothing to shit yourself about. Boks will beat them both.

C
CO 18 days ago

England have nothing to complain about, both teams were at times abysmal and far worse than their earlier tests this year.


England also have no right to their outstanding blindside flanker, straight out poached from NZ professional rugby.


Bizarre penalties against Jordan and Ratima to let England off the hook in the first half which lead to the ridiculous penalty count.


Interested to see if the disallowed try to Beauden was once again the TMO going beyond the number of allowed phases and the puzzling decision not to check whether Marcus Smith was onside with his intercept.


The Allblacks should've really won the game by 35-10 or similar so what's going wrong?


Why did an uninspiring England look likely to win with fifteen minutes left?


The answer is Sititi is carrying the other two Allblack loose forwards, Savea and especially Cane are yesterday's men.


England were able to get away with a lot more slowing down of the ball than they should've surely due to the poorly balanced Allblack back row which also helped the lineout struggle.


With England given knock on advantage why did the ref allow England to refuse to play the ball? That's not in the spirit of the game


The repeat tackles by Allblacks of players without the ball was woeful, however England was running blockers slightly in front of the ball carrier at times,


England also had hands all over the ball at the breakdown, one an obvious penalty that inexplicably the ref ignored in front of goal by the English number eight which would've made the score 22-20 to England.


Finally. Rugby needs to drop the value of penalties from three to two, England didn't attack and should've never been in contention to win this test.


Scott Barrett has to sort out the poor discipline but also ask more of the refereeing.

J
JW 17 days ago

Yep, you could tell which jersey Chandler Cunningham-South wanted to be wearing.

T
Tom 17 days ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that England were awful... The scoreboard was incredibly flattering. As an Englishman it's frustrating that these scorelines keep the coaches thinking they're on the right track. Hopefully we'll get a wake-up call against Aus or SA. England's attack was nonexistent and has been for years.

A
AA 17 days ago

100%

A
AF 18 days ago

Wow, the England hate is palpable lol

L
LW 18 days ago

Savea yesterday's man lol jog on son dropped your credibility like an icecreamcone

J
Jmann 18 days ago

To me it looked liked the ABs were mostly well in control despite not playing particularly well. If anything they were unlucky not to score another 2 or 3tries. Finishing and discipline remain NZ's work ons.

B
Bull Shark 17 days ago

Agreed. England had lost three on the trot against a NZ team well off their best.

R
RW 18 days ago

Smith butchers 2 drop goals, but some think he would have nailed the last one.

S
Stinger 17 days ago

Yeah, some think rugby results has a future component. What if's and maybe's. Weird.

G
GP 18 days ago

As a neutral, enjoyed wstching. Looking forward to next weekend in Dublin.

C
CC 18 days ago

Well well It’s one of those mistakes, or misjudgment by replacing Smith, but Steve is still on it!

C
CC 18 days ago

Well It’s one of those gross mistakes that occurred in these kind of matches, the England coach has got nothing wrong he has done, it’s just misjudgement in replacing Smith, really any coach could have done that, Steve is still on it!

T
Tom 17 days ago

Changing the 10 is almost always a bad idea and should only be done if he's injured, playing badly or you're losing and there is a game changing 10 on the bench to provide impact. None of those things were true in this case, what was Borthwick trying to achieve? Smith should be capable of playing the full 80, 10 isn't a physically demanding position.

F
FL 18 days ago

The ABs were gifting England so many opportunities to win this. Lucky to get away with that one.

f
fl 17 days ago

hello name

R
RB 18 days ago

The real difference was,one missed conversion,one successful one.

B
Bull Shark 18 days ago

And the knives are out already.


It’s weird watching the ABs. In the past, the passes always stuck. The offloads always stuck. There were a few times tonight they looked like scoring many more times. Maybe it’s confidence, but in time they’ll find their rhythm


England never looked like winning. Even after they went ahead. They certainly weren’t the better side. NZ’s ill discipline (again) kept England in it.

B
Bruiser 17 days ago

By the time they play your team at Eden Park next year, you will see more passes sticking

A
AF 18 days ago

I'll discipline also comes from pressure though. I felt England weren't great until the 2nd half, but either the backroom disruptions and this being their first game against a more battle-hardened ABs, I felt they actually did alright. The scrum improved but not for 80 mins, so that actually represents progress.

F
FW 18 days ago

Yeah that was in the past

R
RedWarrior 18 days ago

The first half penalties against NZ were for speculative tackling because England were attacking so flat. If NZ didn't do this then it may have been tries and not penalties conceded earlier. I believe Felix Jones is still helping with the transition online. It was quite clear he wasn't helping in person with Earls in particular shooting up and leaving huge holes. NZ had a few that nearly stuck but the two tries by Telea were defensive errors. Furbank biting on Sititi leaving Genge to mark albeit great offload. Genge wont show Telea the outside again. Poor tacking on Telea for the second. That said he is a hard man to grab hold of.

Isolating Genge was clever for Jordans try. NZ spotted he was turning up in the line too often and they could leave a gap with that switch play. 6 day turnaround for Ireland now.

I imagine NZ will be better, but they will need to be a lot better.

A
AA 18 days ago

Fl_ at u lance.


Borethwick lost the game bringing ford on .

Smith was on fire.

You say Ford has magical control.

Can shut out games .

Has better tackle rate than Smith , ect etc

Yet again UTTERLY NOTHING ON SHOW .

How blind can one be .

Finally, finally ford finished .

It's the 2 Smiths ftom now on and you are one on your own backing ford anymore .

BYEEEEE

f
fl 18 days ago

I've never said any of those things.

f
fl 18 days ago

Ford has been England's best 10 for years and deserves to be given the full 80, but he's never been an impact player.


Give him the 80, or give him 0.

J
JK 17 days ago

0 then

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J
JW 3 hours ago
'Passionate reunion of France and New Zealand shows Fabien Galthie is wrong to rest his stars'

Ok, managed to read the full article..

... New Zealand’s has only 14 and the professional season is all over within four months. In France, club governance is the responsibility of an independent organisation [the Ligue Nationale de Rugby or LNR] which is entirely separate from the host union [the Fédération Française de Rugby or FFR]. Down south New Zealand Rugby runs the provincial and the national game.

That is the National Provincial Championship, a competition of 14 representative union based teams run through the SH international window and only semi professional (paid only during it's running). It is run by NZR and goes for two and a half months.


Super Rugby is a competition involving 12 fully professional teams, of which 5 are of New Zealand eligibility, and another joint administered team of Pacific Island eligibility, with NZR involvement. It was a 18 week competition this year, so involved (randomly chosen I believe) extra return fixtures (2 or 3 home and away derbys), and is run by Super Rugby Pacific's own independent Board (or organisation). The teams may or may not be independently run and owned (note, this does not necessarily mean what you think of as 'privately owned').


LNR was setup by FFR and the French Government to administer the professional game in France. In New Zealand, the Players Association and Super Rugby franchises agreed last month to not setup their own governance structure for professional rugby and re-aligned themselves with New Zealand Rugby. They had been proposing to do something like the English model, I'm not sure how closely that would have been aligned to the French system but it did not sound like it would have French union executive representation on it like the LNR does.

In the shaky isles the professional pyramid tapers to a point with the almighty All Blacks. In France the feeling for country is no more important than the sense of fierce local identity spawned at myriad clubs concentrated in the southwest. Progress is achieved by a nonchalant shrug and the wide sweep of nuanced negotiation, rather than driven from the top by a single intense focus.

Yes, it is pretty much a 'representative' selection system at every level, but these union's are having to fight for their existence against the regime that is NZR, and are currently going through their own battle, just as France has recently as I understand it. A single focus, ala the French game, might not be the best outcome for rugby as a whole.


For pure theatre, it is a wonderful article so far. I prefer 'Ntamack New Zealand 2022' though.

The young Crusader still struggles to solve the puzzle posed by the shorter, more compact tight-heads at this level but he had no problem at all with Colombe.

It was interesting to listen to Manny during an interview on Maul or Nothing, he citied that after a bit of banter with the All Black's he no longer wanted one of their jersey's after the game. One of those talks was an eye to eye chat with Tamaiti Williams, there appear to be nothing between the lock and prop, just a lot of give and take. I thought TW angled in and caused Taylor to pop a few times, and that NZ were lucky to be rewarded.

f you have a forward of 6ft 8ins and 145kg, and he is not at all disturbed by a dysfunctional set-piece, you are in business.

He talked about the clarity of the leadership that helped alleviate any need for anxiety at the predicaments unfolding before him. The same cannot be said for New Zealand when they had 5 minutes left to retrieve a match winning penalty, I don't believe. Did the team in black have much of a plan at any point in the game? I don't really call an autonomous 10 vehicle they had as innovative. I think Razor needs to go back to the dealer and get a new game driver on that one.

Vaa’i is no match for his power on the ground. Even in reverse, Meafou is like a tractor motoring backwards in low gear, trampling all in its path.

Vaa'i actually stops him in his tracks. He gets what could have been a dubious 'tackle' on him?

A high-level offence will often try to identify and exploit big forwards who can be slower to reload, and therefore vulnerable to two quick plays run at them consecutively.

Yes he was just standing on his haunches wasn't he? He mentioned that in the interview, saying that not only did you just get up and back into the line to find the opposition was already set and running at you they also hit harder than anything he'd experienced in the Top 14. He was referring to New Zealands ultra-physical, burst-based Super style of course, which he was more than a bit surprised about. I don't blame him for being caught out.


He still sent the obstruction back to the repair yard though!

What wouldn’t the New Zealand rugby public give to see the likes of Mauvaka and Meafou up front..

Common now Nick, don't go there! Meafou showed his Toulouse shirt and promptly got his citizenship, New Zealand can't have him, surely?!?


As I have said before with these subjects, really enjoy your enthusiasm for their contribution on the field and I'd love to see more of their shapes running out for Vern Cotter and the like styled teams.

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