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Ex-Wallaby on whether modern-day Springboks are greatest team ever

Kurt-Lee Arendse of the Springboks celebrates a try during The Rugby Championship match between Australia Wallabies and South Africa Springboks at Suncorp Stadium on August 10, 2024 in Brisbane, Australia. (Photo by Morgan Hancock/Getty Images)

Following South Africa’s stunningly dominant 33-7 win over Australia last weekend, former Wallaby Morgan Turinui has questioned whether any other side “throughout history could beat this team.”

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When Richie McCaw lifted the Webb Ellis Cup for the second time in as many Rugby World Cups in 2015, that class of champion All Blacks etched their names into the history books for all the right reasons.

That New Zealand side had long been spoken about as potentially the greatest rugby team to ever played the game, but that World Cup triumph proved the squad worthy of an unrivalled level of praise and admiration.

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What a small rugby-mad nation at the bottom of the world managed to achieve on the world stage was the envy of every other team in the sport. Richie McCaw, Dan Carter and Kieran Read are among those who will forever go down in history as all-time greats.

But a new team has entered the ‘GOAT’ conversation. South Africa won back-to-back Rugby World Cups in 2019 and 2023, and it doesn’t seem they’ve gone backwards at all as they begin their four-year journey for what they hope is more glory.

“It’s really difficult to compare generations,” Stephen Hoiles explained on Stan Sports’ Between Two Posts. “That All Blacks side of ’11 and ’15 that had Conrad Smith in the midfield, (Dan) Carter.”

“They won a lot in between,” Morgan Turinui interjected. “This Boks team look like they’re going to win a lot in between. I’m just trying to think of which teams throughout history could beat this team?”

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In their first Test since the Rugby World Cup Final last October, South Africa beat Ireland on home soil. While they stumbled a week later with a late drop goal seeing the Irish emerge victorious, this is a team still very much deserving of the world No. 1 ranking.

The Springboks started The Rugby Championship with a masterful performance against the Wallabies at Brisbane’s Suncorp Stadium. They hadn’t won at the venue since 2013 but it soon became clear that that streak would end.

Match Summary

0
Penalty Goals
0
1
Tries
5
1
Conversions
4
0
Drop Goals
0
114
Carries
139
4
Line Breaks
9
11
Turnovers Lost
15
6
Turnovers Won
4

With thousands of Springboks fans watching on in the stands, Siya Kolisi, Pieter-Steph du Toit and Kurt-Lee Arendse all scored first-half tries. South Africa ended up scoring 33 unanswered points before Hunter Paisami had the last laugh with a try for Australia.

It wasn’t a perfect performance, but it was a brilliant start, nonetheless. Whether this team is rugby’s ‘GOAT’ is up for debate, but it would be brave to suggest the Springboks’ dynasty from 2019 through to now is not the greatest rugby era for the Rainbow Nation.

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“We’re seeing South Africa, a team that is at the peak of their powers, two World Cups, amazing, all the same guys back. Tony Brown on board, connecting some nice things,” former Australia captain Michael Hooper said.

“(Sacha) Feinberg-Mngomezulu is a great player, seemingly, coming out. It’s pretty good stuff.”

Then, Morgan Turinui added: “Well, that’s the chat we had before coming on air. Is this the best Springboks team of all time?”

“Something we observed on the sideline is Duane Vermeulen, who wasn’t playing on the weekend, he’s got the water bib on, and he’s doing a lot of talking in that group,” Hooper discussed later on.

“Their circle is just getting replenished by these guys who have been around them for so long. He wasn’t even in the team but he had real specific orders to have a presence within that team.

“You’re coming on, you’re doing your job, you’re so focused and narrow-focused on what you need to deliver and credit to them, it’s just a credit to watch.”

In this episode of Walk the Talk, Jim Hamilton chats with double World Cup winner Damian de Allende about all things Springbok rugby, including RWC2023 and the upcoming Ireland series. Watch now for free on RugbyPass TV

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112 Comments
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Lou Cifer 96 days ago

Argentina could give them a proper scare, but I don't see the ABs losing at the Garden, so I'd say ABs by 12


Boks vs Aus should be a lot tighter & rain on the cards which evens everything out. Boks by 7 for me

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Turlough 96 days ago

SA and NZ tried their best in the Pool stages. As 3 times RWC champions the best time for SA and NZ to play knock out matches against their main challengers was in the QFs. I honestly don't see anyone stopping France in a semi or final...bar a mugging in a QF. As regards Ireland, a semi against NZ with both teams having a QF the week before. and Ireland with their QF block gone.... I like our odds a lot.


Should be good. Predictions?


NZ by more than a score.

Australia in a thriller.


Thks enjoy.

L
Lou Cifer 96 days ago

🤗🤗


Or you could say they were challengers when it mattered.


Enjoy your weekend Turlough and the rugga tomorrow

T
Turlough 96 days ago

Anyone who is using the QF stick to beat Ireland for 2023 is frankly a bit of an asshole.

Ireland and France both beat a 3 time RWC champion to win their group then had to play another 3 time RWC champion in the quarter. That was our reward for advancing to be no1 and no2 in the world. Ireland and France get past the QF we are in the final. Were NZ a chellenger? France put 15 points on them in the same tournament. Were SA a chellenger? Ireland beat them in the pools. Thats the two finalists beaten by Ireland and France. How could they not be regarded as challengers while also at 1 and 2 in the world?


Just more condesention and disrespect from the arrogant assholes who are the SH 'giants'.

L
Lou Cifer 96 days ago

Being considered one of the greats wasn't the issue, but being called the GOAT with his very limited resume and only being halfway through his career was😉


I wouldn't consider it as "challenge (again)" if they only made it to the QFs🧐

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Turlough 96 days ago

He's an individual not a team. The requirement that his International team had to win everything for him to be considered great was ludicrous. It literally would rule out greats such as Jonah Lomu etc.


SA playing Scotland, England, Wales in Autumn. They could win all 3, good results but that won't prove anything. Ireland might scrape 6N in 2025 (home v England, France), lose it in 2026 and then win in 2027 (hopefully) in a position to challenge (again) for the RWC.

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Lou Cifer 96 days ago

SH circle jerk yet ADP was anointed the GOAT having only won 1 x 6Ns, Olympic gold in 7s, couple domestics trophies and 24mins outside the NH 😂😂


You back to assuming again lol....anyway lets see how it all plays out over the next cycle

T
Turlough 96 days ago

You can only speak for yourself Bull Shite.


How can there even be a debate about SA being the GOAT when they can't beat Ireland?

A weakened Irish team bet your most experienced team ever in Durban. If you're not the current best team how can you be the GOAT?


I know you wish that wasn't the case but it is. Also surely a GOAT should be able to travel north and do a grand slam against the top Northern teams. Results of the series in SA imply you'd lose to Ireland and France are even stronger so you'd lose to them too.

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Turlough 97 days ago

Surely a GOAT contender should be able to come up North and beat the top two?

As far as I can see SH results have beene extremly poor for a long time. In 2016 NZ Won 2/3 against Ireland and France (played Ireland twice, lost 1) was the last good result.

SH can't beat Ireland in a home series. They have not won in Dublin since 2012. Surely they have to come North and beat Ireland in Dublin and take England and/or France too? I see SA only winning one of those now at best. With NZ diminished winning a RC is not what it was either.

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Steve P 98 days ago

Let's put the GOAT argument to bed and appreciate the great rugby on display. There are several strong teams who could all be number 1 if things click:


Boks

All Blacks

England are improving and pushed NZ close, so are becoming a real threat.

Ireland

France


Scotland on the day can beat anyone.


Now we need Wales and Aus to get back to where they can be and we'll have a cracker of a 2027 RWC.


As a Bok fan I was sad we lost the 2nd test, yet at the same time the Irish fans I chatted to before and after the game were amazing. There was such great respect and camaraderie between both sets of fans. That's what rugby is about.


Not blaming the ref and putting teams down for what happened months or years ago. So to all those who can't let go, grow up and become a real rugby fan. It's a game for everyone based on respect.

B
Bull Shark 98 days ago

The boks aren’t the GOATs yet.


But they could be the greatest Bok team ever.


Is what I think what the article was trying to say?

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JW 3 hours ago
'Passionate reunion of France and New Zealand shows Fabien Galthie is wrong to rest his stars'

Ok, managed to read the full article..

... New Zealand’s has only 14 and the professional season is all over within four months. In France, club governance is the responsibility of an independent organisation [the Ligue Nationale de Rugby or LNR] which is entirely separate from the host union [the Fédération Française de Rugby or FFR]. Down south New Zealand Rugby runs the provincial and the national game.

That is the National Provincial Championship, a competition of 14 representative union based teams run through the SH international window and only semi professional (paid only during it's running). It is run by NZR and goes for two and a half months.


Super Rugby is a competition involving 12 fully professional teams, of which 5 are of New Zealand eligibility, and another joint administered team of Pacific Island eligibility, with NZR involvement. It was a 18 week competition this year, so involved (randomly chosen I believe) extra return fixtures (2 or 3 home and away derbys), and is run by Super Rugby Pacific's own independent Board (or organisation). The teams may or may not be independently run and owned (note, this does not necessarily mean what you think of as 'privately owned').


LNR was setup by FFR and the French Government to administer the professional game in France. In New Zealand, the Players Association and Super Rugby franchises agreed last month to not setup their own governance structure for professional rugby and re-aligned themselves with New Zealand Rugby. They had been proposing to do something like the English model, I'm not sure how closely that would have been aligned to the French system but it did not sound like it would have French union executive representation on it like the LNR does.

In the shaky isles the professional pyramid tapers to a point with the almighty All Blacks. In France the feeling for country is no more important than the sense of fierce local identity spawned at myriad clubs concentrated in the southwest. Progress is achieved by a nonchalant shrug and the wide sweep of nuanced negotiation, rather than driven from the top by a single intense focus.

Yes, it is pretty much a 'representative' selection system at every level, but these union's are having to fight for their existence against the regime that is NZR, and are currently going through their own battle, just as France has recently as I understand it. A single focus, ala the French game, might not be the best outcome for rugby as a whole.


For pure theatre, it is a wonderful article so far. I prefer 'Ntamack New Zealand 2022' though.

The young Crusader still struggles to solve the puzzle posed by the shorter, more compact tight-heads at this level but he had no problem at all with Colombe.

It was interesting to listen to Manny during an interview on Maul or Nothing, he citied that after a bit of banter with the All Black's he no longer wanted one of their jersey's after the game. One of those talks was an eye to eye chat with Tamaiti Williams, there appear to be nothing between the lock and prop, just a lot of give and take. I thought TW angled in and caused Taylor to pop a few times, and that NZ were lucky to be rewarded.

f you have a forward of 6ft 8ins and 145kg, and he is not at all disturbed by a dysfunctional set-piece, you are in business.

He talked about the clarity of the leadership that helped alleviate any need for anxiety at the predicaments unfolding before him. The same cannot be said for New Zealand when they had 5 minutes left to retrieve a match winning penalty, I don't believe. Did the team in black have much of a plan at any point in the game? I don't really call an autonomous 10 vehicle they had as innovative. I think Razor needs to go back to the dealer and get a new game driver on that one.

Vaa’i is no match for his power on the ground. Even in reverse, Meafou is like a tractor motoring backwards in low gear, trampling all in its path.

Vaa'i actually stops him in his tracks. He gets what could have been a dubious 'tackle' on him?

A high-level offence will often try to identify and exploit big forwards who can be slower to reload, and therefore vulnerable to two quick plays run at them consecutively.

Yes he was just standing on his haunches wasn't he? He mentioned that in the interview, saying that not only did you just get up and back into the line to find the opposition was already set and running at you they also hit harder than anything he'd experienced in the Top 14. He was referring to New Zealands ultra-physical, burst-based Super style of course, which he was more than a bit surprised about. I don't blame him for being caught out.


He still sent the obstruction back to the repair yard though!

What wouldn’t the New Zealand rugby public give to see the likes of Mauvaka and Meafou up front..

Common now Nick, don't go there! Meafou showed his Toulouse shirt and promptly got his citizenship, New Zealand can't have him, surely?!?


As I have said before with these subjects, really enjoy your enthusiasm for their contribution on the field and I'd love to see more of their shapes running out for Vern Cotter and the like styled teams.

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