Exeter Chiefs statement: The immediate effect exit of Jonny Gray

Are you asking these questions because you think they are important reasons a player should decide to represent a country?

I think that is back the front. They are good reasons why someone 'would' be able to choose Fiji (say in the case of Mo'unga's cousin who the Drua brought into their environment), but not reason's why they "should". Those need to be far more personal imo.

If you think it was me suggesting he "should" play for Fiji, I certainly wasn't suggesting that. I was merely suggesting he would/could because ther'ye very close to his heart with his dad having represented them.

I did go on to say the right sort of environment should be created to encourage them to want to represent Fiji (as with case of their european stars it's always a fine balance between wanting to play for them and other factors (like compared with personal develop at their club). but that is also not trying to suggest those players should want to play for Fiji simply because you make the prospect better, you're simply allowing for it to happen.

TLDR I actually sent you to the wrong post, I was thinking more about my reply to HU's sentiments with yours. Instead of running you around I'll just paste it in

What's wrong with that? Hoskins Sotutu could be selected for the Maori All Blacks, then go on latter and move to England and represent them, then once his career in England (no longer at that standard) is over move to Japan and finish his career playing for Fiji. Why should he not be able to represent any or all of those teams?

Actually I can't remember if it was that message or whether it indeed was my hypothetical Fiji example that I wanted to suggest would improve the International game, not cheapen it.

I suppose I have to try and explain that idea further now. So you say it cheapens the game. They game is already "cheap" when a nation like Fiji is only really allowed to get their full team going in a WC year. Or even it's the players themselves only caring about showing up in a WC year. To me this is a problem because a Fiji campaign/season isn't comparable to their competitors (in a situation where they're say ranked in the top 8. Take last year for instance. Many stars were absent of the Pacific Nations Cup, for whatever reason, but hey, when their team is touring a big EU nation like England or Ireland, wow suddenly theyre a high profile team again and they get the stars back.

Great right? No. Having those players come back was probably detrimental to the teams performance. My idea of having Sotutu and Bower encouraged (directly or indirectly) to play for Fiji is merely as a means to an end, to give the Flying Fijians the profile to both enrich and more accurately reflect the international game. You didn't really state what you dislike but it's easy to guess, and yes, this idea does utilize that aspect which does devalue the game in other cases, so I wanted to see if this picture would change that in this example (just and idea I was throwing out their, like I also said in my post, I don't actually think Sotutu or any of these players are going anywhere, even Ioane might still be hopeful of being slected).

The idea again, raise the visibility on the PNC so that can stand as a valued tournament on it's own and not require basic funded by WR to continue, but not enough to involve all the best players (even Japan treated it as a chance to play it's amatuers). Do this by hosting the PI island pool in places like Melbourne every other year, include some very high profile and influential team in it like an All Black team, and yes, by the nations getting together and creating ways to increase it's popularity by say asking individuals like Sotutu and Bower to strength it's marketability, with the hopeful follow on affect that stars like Botia and Radradra always want to (and can) represent their country. With Fiji as the example, but do it with Samoa and Tonga as well. They will need NZ and Aus (Japan) assistance to make a reality imo.

I don't believe this cheapens the game, I believe it makes it more valued as you're giving players the choice of who they chose to play for rather than basing it off money. Sotutu would never have forgone his paycheck to play for Fiji instead of NZ at the beginning, so you should viewed his current choice as 'cheap'

What you also need to understand is that being picked by McCall to replace Farrell at Sarries signalled very clearly that he was rated by knowledgeable people as a potential test calibre player. Perhaps they’re wrong, we will see soon enough…

Or is this you saying you're against some sort of manipulation of the game? You want it to happen organically when the game/clubs are ready?

I don't think the 10s are going to be the problem, especially with O'Connor there. Many of the opposition will be in exactly the same circumstance, and I feel it's going to be far more dependent on whether that midfield group actually perform, as it was them who largely let the team down with abject performances last year, a little bit the loose forwards playing to potential as well. They were also lacklustre last year with many of the 'better' players that were able to play the entire season not doing as well as expected from either of those two groups.

Having someone like Hotham come on and really be a threat later on was a huge boon, but really they just need a few good moments from their halves to help round out performances, nothing stella.

Especially that midfield, it's easy to see all four them being complete dudes again, in which case the Saders have no show. Lets hope for at least 2 to be firing at any one time, they're all on the cusp of clicking again (all have shown in the past they are capable) I believe.

Might be doing a disservice to Perofeta here, if you want to treat him as a 10 we can he could include the Blues to make it a 3 hourse race I suppose.

It's a bit of a toss up whether it would be more exciting have these selected before the NPC had started (to build hype and knowing who to focus/following on, or keep these selections purely valued/decided on everyone's form (thus building a much wide but perhaps less penetrating interest) in NPC. Also whether it should be done via a draft selection method for extra content and interest.

Also, if you're going to have 'internal standards' around off field things like DeGroot, then that should be extended to the on-field form and discipline of any player. The fact that ALB got carded so many times and yet would appear the following week (mainly to get carded again) was ridiculous.

Well he is British after all JWH!

Yeah, but they are what you just described Bundee as to Ireland. They could all have left for more money elshewere but instead they chose to represent New Zealand.

Teams like Ireland and Scotland are stopping the game from expanded, they are using an unfair advantage to stay ahead of the teams under them trying to get better.

That is pretty much the only reason why we have the current guidelines, everyone wanted to swap every other year based on form and it became too much (I have no idea if that's true!).

But this is only an issue in the North, all the players of some kind of PI descent often play for the country which makes the most sense for them.

Yeah, the only real problem is case where money (the North) becomes the deciding factor.

I do understand where you're coming from though (as what you're thinking was the case a while ago), but the world is changing more. Take this Sotutu England situation, this is becoming less and less likely from happening (at least in this example anyway), as the England Rugby union is not more in charge of payments and not seen as just icing on the cake to a massive club deal (that's how the English game got itself broke in the first place), and nations like Ireland have stated they are no longer going to look offshore etc. So the landscape is improving slowly.

This is all hypothetical remember. Sotutu is most likely to become a key All Black this year as he's the perfect foil a team with tyro's like Sititi, Lakai, Savea is going to need.

But most of the rest of them, including the likes of Luatua and Piutau, it's a complete joke. Filling the Samoan and Tongan national sides with Kiwi's (and a few Aussies) who chased the money and are now having their cake and eating it too hasn't made them any more competitive, if anything, they've gone backwards. It's not for their benefit anyway, it's mostly the NH sides filled with SH born and developed talent that are keen on these rules.

When Augustine Pichot ran and wanted to have tougher criteria, NZ backed him, and the 'Islands' and NH nations backed the status-quo with Beaumont. Easy to see why when you crunch the numbers on players imported into national sides in their 20's after another nation has brought them through, usually to Super level.