Five talking points - Ireland vs England

Yes it was, you suggested they didn't use him and used a different setup instead. That to me is not a Marcus but a Borthwick criticism. Unless that has been your angle all along?

Oh right, so the side is starting to play better with him? This is likely what I spoke of then. I'd like to see it continue now and see how good a Marcus side could get.

Isn't that what your asking for from Marcus? Or that the team wants/needs an older version of Dan Carter? Or are you just basing this of win ratio.

Of course some don't continue to develop past the age of 20. You're not really making any sort of argument unless you have new data. 26/27 is undoubtedly the peak of most positions/peole.

no, England have generally looked like a good side when Smith isn't in the team.

Hahaha, define "good"? I'd suggest to you theyre a "good" side now. Surely Ford or Farrell must have had a period of great success somewhere? What about 2015?

But my point was more the game in England. Having only recently adapted a more open game, the pioneers of that are going to find others take a while to catch up (your point about the rest of the team). So you want the rest of the team trying to halt this momentum and go back to a forward based game ala the success of the last two WCs?

You litterally brought up his name was one of the people who should be playing instead of Marcus.

You know, it's just I see people often making comments like "they likely can't afford to sack him".

He offered to quit. There would have been no cost to releasing him. Where you purposefully trying to make him out to be a 'bad man'?

In England and France (if I'm not mistaken), there is no chance for these clubs to host their national side.

Stick with your message. Theres nothing wrong with Ireland (or you) behaving like theyre better when you suggest it would have taken those three that long to break into the Ireland side based on how well they played with they came over.

I think you're being rather naive though. But I can't argue they would have had some exposure instead that 3 year period as I never saw them play. All I know is when they started playing for Ireland (and not surprised by what I saw btw too), they looked an immediate improvement. So I rather suspect you are wrong on both counts, and they either would indeed have played earlier if eligible (so debunking your "their needed development period" thinking), or that they would have taken just as long to become embedded in the AB framework.

PS: the timeframe were are talking about here is obviously pre Irelands dominance. So perhaps another error in judgement on your part when it comes to these sorts of statements.

Actually, I think it would be beneficial for rugby, as some coachs can't be stopped from basically selecting foreigners for the national side before they've even played a local club game. They're probably doing more harm than good.

You, again, appear unable to accept your perception was wrong (it does shrink his options). It's ok to be wrong Nick, you don't need to behave like some almighty on these forums just because we look up to your opinion.

Also, despite repeating it, it appears that you can't understand I'm representing the people who come up with these arguments, not the players.

Honestly, why are you so blind in these discussions? It smacks of someone unable to change their mind and getting defensive.

You haven't even included that second quote in your article! Thanks for the share though, as I found a link and I never knew that he would have been first school boy ever to have a contract with NZR if he had of chosen to stay.

n an extraordinary move, Tupou will walk away from New Zealand despite being offered extra money from the NZRU — the only time they have made such an offer to a schoolboy.While Tupou has fielded big-money offers from France and England, he said it was best for him and his family to live in Australia, where his older brother Criff works as a miner and will oversee his career.

Intersting also that the article also says

“They said that ‘if you’re not on a New Zealand passport and you’ve been here for four years, you can play for the team’,” Tupou said.“But I’ve been here for four years and they said I can’t play for the New Zealand A team. It’s not fair. Maybe I’m not good enough to stay here.“But that’s one of my goals this year — to play for the New Zealand A team. If I can play with them, then maybe I’ll change my mind from going to Australia. If I have the chance to play for the All Blacks, I’ll take it.”

And most glaringly, from his brother

Criff Tupou said: “What people should understand is that this in not about what Nela wants, or what I want, but what is best for our poor little family.“Playing rugby for New Zealand or Australia will always come second to our family.“My mum lives in Tonga, she would not handle the weather in New Zealand.“And I have a good job in Australia and can look after Nela.“If things don’t work out for him in rugby, what can he do in New Zealand? He is better off in Australia where I can help him get a job.“New Zealand has more rugby opportunities, but Australia has more work and opportunities, and I need to look after my little brother.“We haven’t signed a contract with anyone, we will wait and see what offers we get and make a decision soon.”

So actually my comment is looking more and more accurate.

It does make you wonder about the process. NZR don't generally get involved too much in this sort of thing, it is down to the clubs. Who where they talking to? It appears that the brother was the one making the actual decisions, and that he didn't see the same career opportunities for Taniela as NZR did, prioritizing the need for day jobs. That is were rugby comes in, I'm sure it would have been quite easy to find Criff much better work in NZ, and I highly suspect this aspect was missed in this particular situation, given the discussions were held at such a high level compared to when work can normally be found for a rugby signing. How might his career have paned out in NZ? I don't really buy the current criticisms that the Aussie game is not a good proving ground for young players. Perhaps you might have a better outlook on that now.

So you TLDR shouldn't be so aggressive when suffering from that alzheimers mate👍

Well I suppose you actually should if you're a writer lol