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Four talking points after a 'bonkers' England loss to Australia

By Liam Heagney at Allianz Stadium, Twickenham
England dejection after their latest defeat (Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images)

Friday night lights in Dublin was supposed to provide this weekend’s Autumn Nations Series fireworks, not Saturday afternoon in London. All week Ireland versus New Zealand had been billed as the game not to miss, with England against Australia a next-day sideshow.

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What transpired, though, was the total reverse. The stodgy, two-try, stop-start Aviva Stadium affair was spectacularly eclipsed by the 10-try thriller at Allianz Stadium which came with a stark raving bonkers conclusion where the lead changed hands four times from the 68th minute on.

This writer was at both matches in person and for entertainment and atmosphere, there was no debate that the high-tempo action in TW1 was different gravy compared to what slowly unfolded in D4 less than 24 hours earlier.

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Karl Dickson explains how referees are refocusing on 50/50 kick contests

Referee Karl Dickson explains how World Rugby referees are now focusing on players giving access to a 50/50 contest under the high ball.

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Karl Dickson explains how referees are refocusing on 50/50 kick contests

Referee Karl Dickson explains how World Rugby referees are now focusing on players giving access to a 50/50 contest under the high ball.

It should never have been that way. England were coasting early doors, looking like they were going to win easily, but they blew an excellent 17th minute chance to go three tries up. Tommy Freeman, having galloped away thanks to an exquisite Ben Spencer pop off the floor, lacked the awareness to give a likely try-creating pass to his left on the 22 to Henry Slade.

Throw the ball and it could have been curtains for the Wallabies. Instead, he was tackled to the ground and the rest, as they will now happily tell you in Australia, is gold history. Forget the accusations that next summer’s British and Irish Lions tour will be a dud. It won’t on this delightful evidence which was a timely reminder that Joe Schmidt is a canny Test-level coach.

Match Summary

2
Penalty Goals
3
5
Tries
5
3
Conversions
4
0
Drop Goals
0
122
Carries
161
6
Line Breaks
13
20
Turnovers Lost
13
3
Turnovers Won
8

The way the Aussies repeatedly shifted the ball so quickly to the edge after surviving their early crisis was a throwback to 20 years ago when they were a must-watch, box office outfit every time they played.

In Saturday’s revival, they birthed a talent whose skill will potentially transcend the game of rugby union in Australia. Joseph Suaalii was truly a joy to watch on his debut and the Wallabies suddenly have a poster boy to market their sport around. But enough about the visitors, here are the RugbyPass talking points about a crazy loss for England:

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El-Abd honeymoon over
Seeing a defence coach struggling to bed in on Steve Borthwick’s watch isn’t a new occurrence. Four tries were conceded in Kevin Sinfield’s first outing in February 2023, while Italy grabbed three 12 months later when Felix Jones came on board.

Now, with Jones working out his notice period remotely and Sinfield given a different brief within the set-up, shutting the door has become a problem for Joe El-Abd. His running score is eight tries conceded in two defeats. Not a good look, particularly with the Springboks next in town next Saturday.

The malaise against the Australians was book-ended by similar failures, England players biting in [Ollie Sleightholme and George Furbank in the first instance, Sleightholme and Marcus Smith in the second), not preventing the slick Suaalii and

Len Ikitau passes and seeing Tom Wright and Max Jorgenson gallop into the corners to score the first and last tries.

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In between, George Martin was left badly flat-footed and isolated at a ruck by a slick-footed, try-creating snipe from Tate McDermott to set up Harry Wilson.

Neither Spencer nor Immanuel Feyi-Waboso could deny Jeremy Williams his corner dive-in, and then there was no one at home to head off the emergency of Andrew Kellaway snapping up possession gifted by George Ford’s fluffed pass to Ollie Lawrence and gleefully racing away.

It means the honeymoon has quickly ended for El-Abd, an usher at Borthwick’s wedding some years ago. The French-based specialist needs to quickly eradicate the general level of confusion that exists amongst the players about working with their third different defence coach in less than two years. Starting over again certainly hasn’t been fun.

Losing a late lead… again
Accused last week of speaking meaningless platitudes after the loss to the All Blacks, a defeat that went on to reflect better on England given how they came within the width of a post of winning compared to Ireland’s tame surrender, Borthwick fessed up in his first post-game answer on Saturday that turnovers were blame for England’s latest downfall.

That was a welcome step forward in the head coach making his team accountable, delivering an insight he usually refrains from giving. He also mentioned that the weight of the shirt had been an issue in England teams of the past and easing that burden had been a work-on on his watch.

It’s a vulnerability still hurting them going by Saturday’s latest failure to close out what should have been a win. Twickenham had deliriously erupted with the converted Maro Itoje try supremely converted by Marcus Smith for the 37-35 lead, but those two players who had performed every so well made errors in the ensuing denouement.

Itoje knocked on trying to gather the restart while Smith, after the generally ineffective Slade jumped out of the line, was lured in from the edge to try and double up with Sleightholme on Ikitau when he simply needed to stay out and drift onto Jorgensen.

It’s the fifth time in 13 months that England have messed up keeping a late lead, a dubious list that started with the Rugby World Cup semi-final scrum infringement that handed South Africa their late, late lifeline.

France, New Zealand (twice, in Dunedin and London) and now Australia are other examples of this weakness.

They are not totally inept in this aspect – last spring’s wins over Wales and Ireland were nailed with late-booted scores. But there is definitely a glitch in their psyche when it comes to closing the deal. In a results-are-everything business, it can’t continue.

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Operation Ollie
Saturday was very much ‘Operation Ollie Lawrence’. We have been here before with the marauding centre getting left bereft of the possession necessary to get England on the front foot.

Last week’s meagre two possession against New Zealand was a repeat of the infamous 2021 Six Nations opener when he was starved versus Scotland with Owen Farrell at No10.

Smith, the current out-half, was keen to get his colleague more involved and his lovely, early dinked kick through the cover, which was brilliantly regathered by Lawrence, was the genesis for the Chandler Cunningham-South try.

Lawrence, who had 13 on his back but played as a 12 on Smith’s shoulder, was credited with 10 possessions in total on Saturday, adding to the brio of the England attack which had was more of a threat compared to their series-opening effort of seven days earlier.

It helped that the predictability of having Ben Earl as their primary ball carrier was a dependency they moved away from.

Yes, Earl still topped the chart with a dozen carries and his pass was the assist for the day’s opening try, but having the likes of Lawrence, Cunningham-South and Ellis Genge all have 10 carries each varied the point of attack and it delivered ball-in-hand rewards. That was a positive amid the rancour of the late, late loss.

Player Turnovers Lost

1
Henry Slade
3
2
Ollie Sleightholme
3
3
Ollie Lawrence
2

In Jamie we worry
Jamie George is a lovable, well-spoken bloke but is there a debate to be had that the captaincy has diluted the quality of his general play? He was irreplaceable during Borthwick’s first year, his engine going the full distance in several matches, but the length of his involvements has since hugely declined.

He was there for just 53 minutes versus Ireland, 49 away to France, 54, 49 and 52 in the trilogy of fixtures against New Zealand, and Saturday’s appearance was cut short on 51 minutes with England having surrendered an early 15-3 advantage to trail 18-25 by the time of his departure.

The way momentum was lost on Saturday was a poor reflection on his current leadership.

Of course, the guard dog that is Tom Curry was terribly missed following his 23rd-minute exit with concussion, but his departure alone can’t excuse why England became so passive and the next 28 minutes until George exited were ‘lost’ 3-22 with him supposed to be calling the shots and keeping the team composed and connected.

There was a looseness in his play and he looked spent during his final contribution, moving around without effect after a crafty Australian lineout was thrown short to the front and worked from there for the Williams’ try, a move which included George missing a tackle on Angus Bell.

There are plenty of vice-captains with Genge, Itoje and Earl all starting and Ford coming in off the bench, but you surely want your main man in George to be a dominant figure, leading by his actions as well as his words. England aren’t getting that at the moment with George.

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24 Comments
B
BA 10 days ago

England fans should like a lot of what England did in this game and the ABs mistakes included a better team than people think …Aussie were outstanding with skills and some dynamic ball carrying hard to handle on a day like this …England just need to get a gritty side to them

G
GrahamVF 10 days ago

It looked more like a Super league game between two Australian clubs than a test match.

T
Tom 10 days ago

England were awful. Worst defensive performance I've ever seen from England. The attack only looked better courtesy of Marcus Smith having an exceptional game. The backline looked clueless both with and without the ball.

C
CW 10 days ago

This is the beginning of a RWC cycle. England need to pick players that can be the world's best in their positions at the next RWC. The current line up has only a few players of that potential and the rest have proven they are not. Look at Tizzard, Kenningham, Fitz-Harding, Tom Eillis

J
Jor 10 days ago

Southern Hemisphere rugby a different level

R
RedWarrior 10 days ago

(See quote below for context.)


The Australia result yesterday was massive but perhaps not for the reasons the author here thinks. Before the match Australia ranked 9th and 5 points behind Argentina in 6th were in real grave danger of an uphill battle in their own RWC to avoid a last 16 elimination. They needed to move in this November series. I suspected they might target a big match to win for points gain and Schmidt must have reasoned that England's 'rest week' between NZ and SA was the one to target. So Australia fighting to the death here may have given the illusion of a 'bonkers' match but it was a team fighting to death to win their key match.

Incredibly, England are now ranked 7th behind Arg in 5th and Scotland in 6th.

Australia re 8th but very close. If Australia win against Wales and Scotland then they they are clear in 6th. If other results go for them they could be 5th. Australia cannot make ground net summer, they had to do it now and they had to get close enough to Argentina to allow Australia to secure the ranking they need next year.

Incredible by Schmidt and Australia but some insights into the extra motivation that may have fueled that performance yesterday.


If SA and NZ win then its 1,2,3 SA/NZ/IRL Otherwise as you were. This is largely irrelevant beyond bragging rights.

As I have pointed out elsewhere the practical use of the Rankings is to determine the seedings bands for the RWC draw. The draw takes place early 2026 and hopefully the rankings will be taken from then.

Important to be in the top 6, the top 12. (and likely the top 4).

This is because there are now 6 groups in the RWC 2027.

If you are in top 6 you are in Seeding Band 1. That means none of the other top 6 will be in your group.

Seeding Band 2 are teams from 7-12, who will have a top 6 team but no other 7-12 team.

After England's defeat by NZ there is clear water between NZ in 3rd, France in 4th and England in 5th. England are desperate for top4, ill come back and explain why later.

Lets look at Seeding Band 1 and 6th place. If you make 6th, no top 6 team is in your group, you are top dog. If you win your group, you won't be facing a top 6 team in your 1/8th final, you will be facing a weaker team. If you fail to make 6th place you WILL have a top 6 team in your group and if you don't win your group you WILL (probably) meet a top 6 in the 1/8 final. That's massive.

Its Argentina holding 6th now. Assuming England hold 5th, then its a 4 horse race for 6th. Argentina, Scotland, Italy and ...Australia. (ranked 6,7,8,9)

Australia play the Lions in NH summer 2025 they are running out of time to get up to 6th for their own RWC. They MUST make a move now. They must beat Wales and they really must beat Scotland to gain points and take points off them. Could they surprise England or Ireland? England may be the better bet but Schmidt knows Ireland so well having masterminded their downfall in France.

Another one to watch is Italy V Argentina. Italy are ambitious and they will want to start pushing the likes of Argentina. If they win this they are still in the hunt. Well worth a watch either way.

Top4: I think the top 6 will be seeded, all the way through from the draw. If thats the case then the top 4 will be seeded to avoid each other until the semi. Good for more certainty around ticket sales etc. That's a possible reason why England want in there. You're not in there you are hitting a top 4 team in a QF. That's an extra 50:50 match you can do without and avoid by being top 4.

F
Flankly 10 days ago

On the face of it the England rush defence seemed to be worse this week than last. I thought the line speed last week was very effective against NZ, and that the NZ tries had to be very well worked to get around or through. But in fact the apparent deterioration of the England defence may have been more about Schmidt learning from the NZ game. Australia were quick about getting the ball outside of the midfield defenders, and England struggled to cover it effectively. Suaailii was a key element of this. The Boks are going to test this next week, and if England don't address it we should see some Bok tries out wide.


The England attack was as expected, ie fairly ineffective, per last week. Smith is the exception. His magic was behind almost everything England did on attack. While it's great for England to have a player like this, the question is what will happen when an opponent targets him to minimize his impact. Can England win a game with their Plan B? We saw what happened in the 2019 RWC final when the Boks shut down George Ford.


More of a surprise was the England forward pack. This ought to be the area in which Bothwick excels. It is a traditional England strength, and Borthwick was a forward himself. And there is a lot of experience in that pack. So I thought Australia might be overwhelmed up front. But that's not really what happened. It's not obvious that the England pack is any more than average at the moment.


My conclusion this week is similar to last, namely that England has not solved its coaching problem. It looks very different for NZ and Australia - they both have coaching results that are looking quite good.

T
Tom 10 days ago

The England defence was equally disorganised against NZ. NZ were finding doglegs everywhere, if there hadn't been some uncharacteristic handling errors and inaccurate passes, the score would have been a lot worse.

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RedWarrior 10 days ago

Good analysis. Possibly also England mentality had this as 'easy' week between NZ and SA. Also, Australia had extra motivation here IMO. See my post above.

C
CM 10 days ago

Borthwick appointed a friend as an unproven defence coach and an "attack" coach who rarely did any attacking when playing. The defence is terrible and the attack is poor. Slade has 67 caps and scored 9 tries, so a try every 7.44 matches. Will Greenwood had 55 caps and scored 31 tries so a try every 1.77 matches. Slade has no pace, no guile. He is not the only one but as long as SB is guided by poor coaching friends and continues to select players he is loyal to rather than better players there is no hope for any improvement for England.

T
Tom 10 days ago

Selection is largely irrelevant since the coaching is so poor but the one player who is sorely missed and his absence is inexplicable is Sam Underhill. He's always been better than Curry, such an underrated player.


Borthwick has to go. Losing the best defence coach in the world and replacing him with your flatmate from university who's never been employed as a defence coach is not acceptable. I could just about stomach Wigglesworth, a guy who's idea of attacking can be summed up in two words "box kick" being in charge of our attack while we had Felix Jones but now this team is just an embarrassment.

D
DP 10 days ago

You’ve got the players but clearly not the coaches. Losing Felix has been a massive setback but ultimately England just need to tighten up and man up.

B
Bull Shark 10 days ago

If any other tier one team lost 70% of their matches in a year…


England honestly looked like they’d stopped playing after their second score. Went to sleep and woke up a bit late on the second half.


The Springboks are going to pummel England.

D
DP 10 days ago

Don’t tempt fate. Watch them beat the Boks next week 🫣

A
AA 11 days ago

Here we are again .

Another loss from being

ahead.

Is it the players or just very limited coaching .

Both NZ and Aus look dangerous when they have the ball . England very stilted and going through obviously pre planned moves.

Only Smith gives impetus and danger.

Second time the world's best player at shutting out games comes on and Smith gets moved. Hey . We lose again .

Yes lots of errors , but to keep losing like this is plain stupid.

Borthwick said the players did not keep to the game plan .

Really.? They were winning both games until he made idiotic decisions to change the team at just the moment to keep things as they were .

RFU. Something has to change .


R
RE 11 days ago

In fairness I feel M Smith plays really well in Fullback position having that bit of space and time to think. G Ford is a good player it's unfair to place blame on him.

Let's face it Smith missed 2 drop goal attempts against SA yet because of the timing of Fords failure it's all on him.

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JW 3 hours ago
'Passionate reunion of France and New Zealand shows Fabien Galthie is wrong to rest his stars'

Ok, managed to read the full article..

... New Zealand’s has only 14 and the professional season is all over within four months. In France, club governance is the responsibility of an independent organisation [the Ligue Nationale de Rugby or LNR] which is entirely separate from the host union [the Fédération Française de Rugby or FFR]. Down south New Zealand Rugby runs the provincial and the national game.

That is the National Provincial Championship, a competition of 14 representative union based teams run through the SH international window and only semi professional (paid only during it's running). It is run by NZR and goes for two and a half months.


Super Rugby is a competition involving 12 fully professional teams, of which 5 are of New Zealand eligibility, and another joint administered team of Pacific Island eligibility, with NZR involvement. It was a 18 week competition this year, so involved (randomly chosen I believe) extra return fixtures (2 or 3 home and away derbys), and is run by Super Rugby Pacific's own independent Board (or organisation). The teams may or may not be independently run and owned (note, this does not necessarily mean what you think of as 'privately owned').


LNR was setup by FFR and the French Government to administer the professional game in France. In New Zealand, the Players Association and Super Rugby franchises agreed last month to not setup their own governance structure for professional rugby and re-aligned themselves with New Zealand Rugby. They had been proposing to do something like the English model, I'm not sure how closely that would have been aligned to the French system but it did not sound like it would have French union executive representation on it like the LNR does.

In the shaky isles the professional pyramid tapers to a point with the almighty All Blacks. In France the feeling for country is no more important than the sense of fierce local identity spawned at myriad clubs concentrated in the southwest. Progress is achieved by a nonchalant shrug and the wide sweep of nuanced negotiation, rather than driven from the top by a single intense focus.

Yes, it is pretty much a 'representative' selection system at every level, but these union's are having to fight for their existence against the regime that is NZR, and are currently going through their own battle, just as France has recently as I understand it. A single focus, ala the French game, might not be the best outcome for rugby as a whole.


For pure theatre, it is a wonderful article so far. I prefer 'Ntamack New Zealand 2022' though.

The young Crusader still struggles to solve the puzzle posed by the shorter, more compact tight-heads at this level but he had no problem at all with Colombe.

It was interesting to listen to Manny during an interview on Maul or Nothing, he citied that after a bit of banter with the All Black's he no longer wanted one of their jersey's after the game. One of those talks was an eye to eye chat with Tamaiti Williams, there appear to be nothing between the lock and prop, just a lot of give and take. I thought TW angled in and caused Taylor to pop a few times, and that NZ were lucky to be rewarded.

f you have a forward of 6ft 8ins and 145kg, and he is not at all disturbed by a dysfunctional set-piece, you are in business.

He talked about the clarity of the leadership that helped alleviate any need for anxiety at the predicaments unfolding before him. The same cannot be said for New Zealand when they had 5 minutes left to retrieve a match winning penalty, I don't believe. Did the team in black have much of a plan at any point in the game? I don't really call an autonomous 10 vehicle they had as innovative. I think Razor needs to go back to the dealer and get a new game driver on that one.

Vaa’i is no match for his power on the ground. Even in reverse, Meafou is like a tractor motoring backwards in low gear, trampling all in its path.

Vaa'i actually stops him in his tracks. He gets what could have been a dubious 'tackle' on him?

A high-level offence will often try to identify and exploit big forwards who can be slower to reload, and therefore vulnerable to two quick plays run at them consecutively.

Yes he was just standing on his haunches wasn't he? He mentioned that in the interview, saying that not only did you just get up and back into the line to find the opposition was already set and running at you they also hit harder than anything he'd experienced in the Top 14. He was referring to New Zealands ultra-physical, burst-based Super style of course, which he was more than a bit surprised about. I don't blame him for being caught out.


He still sent the obstruction back to the repair yard though!

What wouldn’t the New Zealand rugby public give to see the likes of Mauvaka and Meafou up front..

Common now Nick, don't go there! Meafou showed his Toulouse shirt and promptly got his citizenship, New Zealand can't have him, surely?!?


As I have said before with these subjects, really enjoy your enthusiasm for their contribution on the field and I'd love to see more of their shapes running out for Vern Cotter and the like styled teams.

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