Gloucester beaten by Top 14 newcomers Vannes in France

The chances of even getting 15 games next year to earn selection, let alone ones of such quality, are exactly zero.

You can certainly make up for size with talent or whatever, that's for sure, but talent isn't dependent on size, so size is undisputedly beneficial (until you go overboard like Nick Bishop and want someone like Cale to increase from 105 to 115kg).

Ardie is a few kg lighter than Cale because he is shorter (but using your lower center of gravity is a skill that allows lighter players to compete) and you might not notice it, no, but the 10kg different between Jordie and Andre at 12 is critical at determining what strategies are successful. As is mauling for teams with tall players like Skelton or Meafou, who are therefor able to carry much more weight.

But you're probably only still arguing about your view people put too much on height and weight, and I agree with that.

"First off, I would start at the bottom, and I'd probably make the two divisions identical."

what does this mean?

"What happened last year is irrelevant, any model or distribution needs to be taken with the future in mind, and that is going to likely mean weaker English teams (when the comp expands again)"

What a bizarre thing to say. You have to let teams qualify on merit, not based on how you assume they will do next season. English teams do well in the champions cup.

"First I think qualificatin has to be incentive based, so none of the worst teams qualify"

Completely agree.

"Then theres a myriad of cool wildcard tricks to balance things out further"

every wildcard idea you go on to suggest is terrible. If you for one moment thought any of them are good then you should probably get a lobotomy.

It's hard to say Barry. I'm not certain Mo'unga would have been preferrable over Dmac to the way we played. Mo'unga is more like Pendragrast, a league first five. Dmac is a traditional 1st who feeds his outsides, not taking the gaps/running lines like we saw off Jordie last weekend, or Mo'unga against Ireland.

That said, he would have been a huge benefit for when Dmac got rested or Razor wanted to try something different, in place fo Beauden.

But in relation to your discussion with JD, the circumstance is no different than Ireland not being able to select their stars in France, Farrell with England, or France requiring Frisch to return/sign locally before he was selected.

That's a change for Ireland is it? What do you think is behind that? Are the top ups just for players that get offered big million dollar (well 500k pound for you I suppose) contracts?

But yep, I assume with the URC that has probably dictated that (SA has done the same), with money possibly going straight to the teams now?

We're not criticizing Ardie for this of course but the parallel that was being made was to the hindrance to development of the side. If you remember we played Ardie at blindside specifically because Read was captain and thought undropable.

You can think of his selection as causing someone like Sotutu (when he quite rightly should have been benched early in the season and caused Razor to change his loosie makeup), who could prove unplayable with the right selections around him, from leaving the country and doing the same against us instead, or slowing the development of young players like Sititi.

Others have already clearly made the point re your reference to him being the best this year, I was just expressing the another picture that actually needs more attention. Youre right, he could have been the best forward on the northern tour at least (thanks to constant opportunity), but at what cost?

Your talking about a team who hunted Benji Marshall, you're not doing your point any favours.

Same team with BB were hopeless last year. This year the won the competition without him.

Do you keep playing the 10 that we given the job in losses to Eng, SA, and Aus1? Or would you pick one of Ed's names (or any else you like), or someone else from home?

In real life, the vast majority of first choice All Blacks stay at home while at their peak. Every country has a tipping point but we're nowhere near it.

Incorrect. Robinson has said the team have been prepared and able to be spending more money on contracts than what they're bring inn(and have spent in the past), but that it's not able to continue for much longer.

He could improve though, I don't really see Jordan able to achieve much improvement however. He is been in a professional environment much longer than Tele'a, the physical side, with just a bit of strength and speed work, is about were I see his gains coming from. Were as Tele'a has a lot of technical areas to gain improvement, which simply comes with practice (ie getting more consistent in the times his aerial ability has proved critical to victories).

And it's clear why I'm comparing 1st years.