'It's embarrassing' - Jim Mallinder tears into his own side

"Otherwise, like I've already said, you're first likely to be looking at Challenge, getting a few their, then back to Champions quarters I'd imagine."

I'm quite confused by how you're framing this. For a 20 team champions cup I'd have 4 teams qualify from the previous years champions cup, and 4 from the previous years challenge cup. For a 16 team champions cup I'd have 3 teams qualify from the previous years champions cup, and 1 from the previous years challenge cup.

"You might find it more palatable if you flip the sequence in CC qualifcation"

I'd find it a lot less palatable, hence why I didn't suggest it!

So I ask again:

How did you come to the conclusion that half of the champions cup teams would be french if a UEFA style points system was adopted?

You can't change human nature, you can only disguise it.

But they still have been the best of URC's contribution to EPCR rugby, and along with them having the most applications towards it...

It might have changed this year, but my understanding is that about one eighth of the qualification spots in the champions league go to english clubs, but around a quarter of the semi finalists are normally english.

The point being that in UEFA's system there isn't a 1:1 correspondence with the proportion of teams from each league that make the semis and the proportion of teams from each league that qualify for the competition. I was making this point because AlanP seemed to think that there would have to be a 1:1 correspondence if a UEFA style system was adopted for the champions cup.

"And at some point, a 'chance' to make it by winning challenge cup etc, is not going to cut it."

Why not? I don't see why Black Lion need to be in the champions cup. If they win the Challenge Cup then they can qualify for the Champions Cup. If they make the semis or the quarters of the Challenge Cup then that would probably prove that they are good enough for the Champions Cup, but not so good that the Challenge Cup doesn't still pose a challenge for them.

You realise no one is going to gain entry through performance in the champions cup right? When was the last time a team was good enough to reach the best four in europe but not in their own league?

You could do what I suggest and add that qualification to the league. You might find it more palatable if you flip the sequence in CC qualifcation. The first way a team qualifies for top seed (this probably already happens in some respect) is by winning it the previous year, then that is through to fourth seed. Then comes the "guarenteed" league spots, so if a French side finishes 1 and 4 four instance, those two are in, then the four most ranked teams in France are allicated, so have 6 team entry (possible more if you also doing Challenge). It is basically my idea but on steroids, x4.

Otherwise, like I've already said, you're first likely to be looking at Challenge, getting a few their, then back to Champions quarters I'd imagine.

But yea, my main explaination was in reply to the idea that Alan seemed to have thnking you were suggesting looking at Champions finishes well past the quarter stage. And I don't think you were suggesting that were you.

For the selection do we agree on last year's winer qualifying automatically?

Do we agree on using the UEFA system? If yes what should be the maximum (and minimum) teams per league?

I would say max 7 (including last year's winner)

So that would mean for next year:

7 top14

5 prem

4 URC

Why are you avoiding that question?

Is it because you insisted you weren't implying a 1 to 1 correspondence between the proportion of teams from each league that make the semis, and the proportion of teams from each league that should qualify for the competition, when you clearly were?