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Joe Marler wasn't wrong to take a pop at the All Blacks' haka
Sport needs more Joe Marlers.
Folk with a sense of humour, good points to make and the thick skin to wear the criticism that inevitably comes their way.
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I applaud Marler, the accomplished England prop, for his latest pop at the All Blacks haka.
I get that the haka is culturally â and commercially â important to the All Blacks and New Zealand Rugby, but Iâve never felt everyone else had to treat it reverentially.
It was something the All Blacks used to do on tour, but not at home. A largely token exercise it was too, until Wayne Shelford invested more mana into the whole thing.
Those of us of a certain vintage remember the coming together of Shelford and Irelandâs Willie Anderson in 1989 as one of the great moments in the history of the haka.
Teams are kept apart in rugby now and I can see why.
One of the more memorable pre-match challenges I ever saw was between the New Zealand Maori and Cook Islands rugby league teams, in Hawkeâs Bay about 20 years ago.
I say memorable because that ended in a brawl, after the two teams got a little too close for comfort.
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As surprising and exciting as that was, itâs not the sort of thing you want to see at Twickenham every time the All Blacks come to town.
Iâve always felt New Zealandâs national sevens teams get the haka right. They perform it if and when they win a title, in large part because the tight schedule of tournaments doesnât allow for it to happen before every match.
Iâd quite like to see it become an aftermatch ritual for the All Blacks as well, not least because for all the good haka Iâve seen in recent seasons, theyâve often been the prelude to defeat.
The Kiwis rugby league team, for instance, produced a spine tingling haka ahead of Sundayâs test against Australia. Only problem was, the 80 minutes that followed werenât marked by quite the same levels of ferocity and cohesion.
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Some of Australiaâs players smirked afterwards, which no doubt upset a few sensitive folk, and thatâs partly the issue Marler is driving at.
Just because the haka matters to us, doesnât mean it has to matter to everyone else. Teams shouldnât have to undergo cultural sensitivity training around how to receive the haka, just because New Zealand teams insist upon doing it.
I remember a time in the 1990s when Wallabies loose forward Sam Scott-Young blew kisses at the All Blacks during the haka.
Itâs probably not something I would do, but Iâd defend Scott-Youngâs right to do it.
Marlerâs bound to have offended people with his tweet about the haka and itâll become a topic of pre match post-match chat in London as journalists, starved for actually interesting topics, resort to driving a wedge between the teams on the basis that the haka is some sort of sacred cow.
I was never much of a rugby player, but I played 1st XV footy and took great pride in performing the school haka ahead of our matches. The thing is, though, the opposition did theirs too.
A challenge was laid down, then another accepted in response.
Thatâs our rugby culture, but itâs not Marlerâs or Englandâs and Iâm not sure weâre in a position to demand that he likes, or even respects, our desire to do it.
I enjoy the players an coaches who are more out there instead of the copy paste responses given. It leaves them open to criticism but they are great topics to discuss.
Graham Rowntree for one was a good interview. I think after the stormers game.
Ok so I just listened to âThe Ruck Rugby Podcastâ and they clarified Joe Marlerâs comments.
I, as a NZer, 100% agree with Joe Marler.
If we are going to have haka before a game, they need to get rid of the stupid 10m rule, kick out the photographers (maybe keep a couple of mics for the crowd to hear it if you like but whatever), and let teams respond how they want, with the following information.
- it is a challenge to a contest.
- the highest possible form of respect you can show someone in Nz is to perform a haka for them.
- respond how you want.
Now, Kiwis:
HARDEN THE F UP LIKE YOUR TEAM DOES AND STOP BEING SO PRECIOUS.
( I guess that goes for me too.)
Anyway thatâs what I think.
Lovely to see the kiwi fans disintegrate into homophobic slurs and nonsensical partizan hollering just because it's the only international sporting contest they can hope to compete in.
By far the most biased, blinkered and uneducated fans I've ever come across.
Not a single person in the country can explain the cultural significance of the haka because it's a war dance, not part of any sporting contest.
When it is confronted, teams are punished. When individuals stand against it they are vilified or nearly crippled like O'Driscol was and to this day no kiwi will acknowledge it.
I have no love for Joe at all, but it brings up the point again. Why the hell should anyone have to stand there and put up with it?
If you all love it and it means so much to you all, do it in your own time.
And if anyone has a problem, please explain it to me fluently in Maori and I'll consider your point. If you can't, get your own identity and live up to that instead of clinging onto a cultural heritage that you don't fully understand yet try to stuff down everyone else's throat.
Rugby Union is the game demonstrably with the best ethics.
One of those ethics would be to not interfere with any country's rugby rituals.
Let NZ get on with it, it takes only a couple of minutes of your time.
No ones stopping marler from countering with a round of Morris dancing while pecking peckers,
I think mahler is just jealous because england doesnât have any cultural practices or know how to respond to the all blacks challenge.
They knew in 2019....
Maybe Marler should've also asked for the binning of the National Anthems?
Yeah they keep changing it too. Just a few years ago it was "God save the Queen" and now its God save the King. Is that a "choosing to identify as" thing Hehe!
Especially with some of the singers they get in for the touring team, even both sometimes. NZ's have been fantastic this year so maybe we give the RFU a chance!
Couldn't agree more. I respect the team's decision to perform it even though I don't care for it. And even that respect got a little less over time with all the talk of aura in close attendance, which is just mythmaking (and part of a concerted effort of off-the-field and in-the-media and in-the-boardroom gamesmanship). Respect doesn't flourish at gunpoint. NZ behaviour to own rugby and the right to win and be revered is getting a bit much.
So by extension does he also include any other specific challenges say from the pacific island countries, I personally enjoy Fiji, Samoa and Tonga doing their cultural challenges
Well at least they're the originators of the thing, and not a bunch of colonists trying to make up for their past indiscretions, as well as making it longer, and longer and longer just to make it look more authentic. Mind you it's funny watching PÄkehÄs trying to do those facial exercises! Took you guys long enough to do the first verse of your anthem in Maori, as well, hey.
The "Originals" in 1905 won 34 of 35 games (losing to Wales 3-0) became known as the "All Blacks" and performed the haka...its a continued historical legacy for the selected few who have earned the right to wear the jersey...
To every whinging persons who denigrates a long standing tradition, block your ears, close your eyes or whatever, just pull your finger out because it'll continue to be done.
Go the All Blacks...keeping the legacy alive, win or lose...onwards and upwards.
You just see haka at the odd game of ruby, if toast pops in NZ we now haka.
The government is now spending millions on attempting to turn it into the national sport with a fully tax funded haka competition that's the envy of Olympic gold medal sports like kayaking.
Next year the Allblacks will insist on sides touring NZ only play a couple of minutes of rugby before an 80 minute haka contest to decide each test.
This will go a long way to fixing the regular losses now occuring against the top rugby sides with players now selected primarily on how fancy their haka is.
TJ and others have very impressive haka that Marler has no chance of matching with his style of haircut and poor choice of music.
And yet that haka competition gets more views and attendees than people dressed up in leotards and tights, prancing around on stage like horses to boring orchestral music which for years received way more funding. Face it old man, your time and stranglehold on what "NZ culture is" has come to an end.
Wow imagine a nation spending money on a cultural program.
If the English dont want the haka performed than all they have to do is Express that. The Welsh did and we honored their request, doing the haka in the changing rooms, which was met with boos as to why the fans misd out on it. đ€·đœââïž seriously though I dont think we give two shits anymore bout this Northern hemisphere talking point about banning the haka. Because if you really wanted that youd makesure the boys didn't perform it. The real headline for me is can the ABs stop the young English fly half on his home turf after nearly beating the boys at Eden park. Will be a great watch. UP THE ABS
The Welsh didn't say that. They just expressed the reasonable request that their piece of culture (singing the Welsh National anthem) happened after the Haka which would have doubled as a response to the Haka. NZ rejected this which was unfair to Wales in my opinion.
Well said, though it was the ABs who pulled the plug as the Welsh wanted the haka done between the anthems on the sideline facing the main stand.
Hamish Bid "Joe Marler fare"well
Totally agree with you Hamish. I'd prefer less than more, was it on away games we performed it? I do remember it was special when performed.
I remember ABs v Samoa first ever test match held at Eden Park and a bit of a furore over who should lay the first challenge, it was all played out in the media. Apparently Maori protocol won out, something along the lines of "we're the defendants against the challenger so we're first and you can follow"... so it was decided. Even though Samoa was the "challenger" đ€!? Anyway Peter Fatialofa wasn't waiting around and led the "Siva Tau" whilst the haka was being performed.
I also want to say that after performing the haka challenge you shouldn't have the right to also eyeball the receiver in to walking away first.
I hope England and all the other teams that don't have a cultural challenge of sorts realise this and stand their ground, that is their "acceptance". Don't be shooed away by the ref.
I watched the ABs v Tonga game in Brisbane during the 2003 WC. Both teams started their Haka at the same time. An amazing experience for the 50k of fans there and applauded at the end with 90% of people standing when it finished. My 13yo son at the time, still talks about it some 21 years later.
I would hate to see the Haka go, but at the moment, in its present form, it's too long and too choreographed. I would be interested to see a Haka from 20+ years ago in comparison.
Marler's "ridiculous " comment on the Haka says it all about a mediocre player who only stands out on the field because of his "ridiculous" hairstyle and that he only picks fights with small No 9s (like Faf)....no wonder he is not even in the match day squad. And now he has scuttled into social hiding by deleting his profile.....the Haka is about tradition and most true rugby fans love it....
Marler didn't pick a fight with DeKlerk. DeKlerk stupidly took a cheap shot at Marler and he grabbed him before he could scurry away.