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'Josh Lord, Wallace Sititi, and Cortez Ratima combined have played seven'

Argentina's Agustin Creevy (L) and Pablo Matera celebrate their team's victory in the Rugby Championship match between New Zealand and Argentina at Sky Stadium in Wellington on August 10, 2024. (Photo by Grant Down / AFP via Getty Images)

The difference in experience in key positions across the two benches has come under the microscope after the All Blacks opening round loss to Argentina in the Rugby Championship.

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Los Pumas had veteran hooker Agustin Creevy, who played a pivotal role down the stretch, as well as veteran lock Tomas Lavanini in their reserves.

La Rochelle prop Joel Sclavi and Gloucester prop Mayco Vivas brought more power off the bench up front, which helped turn the tables on the All Blacks scrum in the final quarter.

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Ex-All Black wing Jeff Wilson highlighted the differences in experience across the two teams which counted down the stretch.

And you mentioned Agustin Creevy and what they brought off the bench, Tomas Lavanini as well,” Wilson said on The Breakdown

“You’re talking about hundreds of Test matches, right? Let’s have a look at what the All Blacks brought off the bench in terms of experience and critical moments to combat that.

“You got Asafo Aumua, who’s played nine. You’ve got Fletcher Newell, who’s played 16. Josh Lord, Wallace Sititi, and Cortez Ratima combined have played seven.

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“So your guys talking about guys in critical roles and critical positions, executing line outs, executing work at the breakdown, and Wallace Sititi responsible for the last penalty in regards to not releasing, and Cortes Ratima, who in his third Test match, is probably in one of the most critical decision making positions.

“So you start thinking about selection, and you know, we made it different. We made some changes in terms of combinations.”

Wilson questioned the number of coaches that the All Blacks currently have involved in selection.

He indicated that the selection jobs have become increasingly narrow with coaches allocated certain positions to select each week.

I want to bring this up like, the one thing that’s clearly different about what the All Blacks are doing, and it’s not about the players,” he said.

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“They’ve got a huge number of coaches who have got huge responsibilities in terms of selection. And when you start thinking about that, that’s different.

“I’m not sure we’ve seen that from another team where they’ve been assigned positions.

“There’s a huge number of coaches, and they’ve got an area they have to focus on, and is the danger there?”

 

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Comments

15 Comments
T
Toaster 100 days ago

Finally Goldie mentions what I think is the real problem

Yes experience coming on for a couple but Ratima has proven himself and Aumua and Newell are fine


Ofa was alarmingly bad - not enough recent rugby?

Papalii should’ve stayed on not Blackadder


The real reason is there are two many coaches with no discernible game plan

The players must be confused and seem like shadows currently


Most key areas were below average

D
DH 100 days ago

Ben Smith : I watched TV and they said this...


Ben, even your excuse for NZ being soundly beaten doesn't carry any weight. Your entire article is a quote from a video that's already available on YouTube.


Must do better. Try evoking genuine sentiment from within and writing it down. If that doesn't work, go back to finance, it's clear so far that your skills lie in the comments section, as a troll, rather than up top as a journo. This is a space for rugby journalists, please let them do their job and stick to trolling.

C
CO 100 days ago

Sititi too small for an eight, needs to shift into hooker. McKenzie really struggling at ten. Aumua cannot throw consistently into lineouts. Perenara too slow. Riekos cover defense sorely missed with ALB being caught out. Reece's slapback a terrible play, exceeded by Ardie who continues to play out of position at eight. Blackadder simply not up to snuff at six with a perplexing move to remove the openside Dalton at a critical time and replace him with a rookie who gave away penalties. Samipeni and Clarke need to come back in with Telea shifted to the right wing. Beauden into ten with Jordan starting fullback. We need to increase our size in the backs. McKenzie and Reece far too small.

I
IS 99 days ago

Sititi is bigger than most 8s what you on about too small he literally was up on for 10 minutes way too late to do anything when he played against Fiji he smashed it he's a better 8 than savea

T
Toaster 100 days ago

Sititi is about 13kg heavier than Ardie

He isn’t small

He needs time

McKenzie is going ok IMO - he isn’t the problem

Agree on riekos cover defence

That hole wouldn’t have been so big and he could’ve scrambled back


Ardie could play 7 I feel once Sititi gets up to speed

The issue is that Ardie is still the best 8


Don’t disagree with your changes

Certain Clarke will start with Telea on his correct right wing

B
Bruiser 100 days ago

I dont mind losing the odd one if we are blooding some young ones. Just no point in likes of Cane, TJP and Blackadder being anywhere near the squad

T
Toaster 100 days ago

Ironically with the injuries and lack of leadership Cane would be very welcome this year


Agree on the other two

TJ isn’t cutting it

And I’ve never seen what Cantabs see in Blackadder

Saturday really highlighted it

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J
JW 2 hours ago
'Passionate reunion of France and New Zealand shows Fabien Galthie is wrong to rest his stars'

Ok, managed to read the full article..

... New Zealand’s has only 14 and the professional season is all over within four months. In France, club governance is the responsibility of an independent organisation [the Ligue Nationale de Rugby or LNR] which is entirely separate from the host union [the Fédération Française de Rugby or FFR]. Down south New Zealand Rugby runs the provincial and the national game.

That is the National Provincial Championship, a competition of 14 representative union based teams run through the SH international window and only semi professional (paid only during it's running). It is run by NZR and goes for two and a half months.


Super Rugby is a competition involving 12 fully professional teams, of which 5 are of New Zealand eligibility, and another joint administered team of Pacific Island eligibility, with NZR involvement. It was a 18 week competition this year, so involved (randomly chosen I believe) extra return fixtures (2 or 3 home and away derbys), and is run by Super Rugby Pacific's own independent Board (or organisation). The teams may or may not be independently run and owned (note, this does not necessarily mean what you think of as 'privately owned').


LNR was setup by FFR and the French Government to administer the professional game in France. In New Zealand, the Players Association and Super Rugby franchises agreed last month to not setup their own governance structure for professional rugby and re-aligned themselves with New Zealand Rugby. They had been proposing to do something like the English model, I'm not sure how closely that would have been aligned to the French system but it did not sound like it would have French union executive representation on it like the LNR does.

In the shaky isles the professional pyramid tapers to a point with the almighty All Blacks. In France the feeling for country is no more important than the sense of fierce local identity spawned at myriad clubs concentrated in the southwest. Progress is achieved by a nonchalant shrug and the wide sweep of nuanced negotiation, rather than driven from the top by a single intense focus.

Yes, it is pretty much a 'representative' selection system at every level, but these union's are having to fight for their existence against the regime that is NZR, and are currently going through their own battle, just as France has recently as I understand it. A single focus, ala the French game, might not be the best outcome for rugby as a whole.


For pure theatre, it is a wonderful article so far. I prefer 'Ntamack New Zealand 2022' though.

The young Crusader still struggles to solve the puzzle posed by the shorter, more compact tight-heads at this level but he had no problem at all with Colombe.

It was interesting to listen to Manny during an interview on Maul or Nothing, he citied that after a bit of banter with the All Black's he no longer wanted one of their jersey's after the game. One of those talks was an eye to eye chat with Tamaiti Williams, there appear to be nothing between the lock and prop, just a lot of give and take. I thought TW angled in and caused Taylor to pop a few times, and that NZ were lucky to be rewarded.

f you have a forward of 6ft 8ins and 145kg, and he is not at all disturbed by a dysfunctional set-piece, you are in business.

He talked about the clarity of the leadership that helped alleviate any need for anxiety at the predicaments unfolding before him. The same cannot be said for New Zealand when they had 5 minutes left to retrieve a match winning penalty, I don't believe. Did the team in black have much of a plan at any point in the game? I don't really call an autonomous 10 vehicle they had as innovative. I think Razor needs to go back to the dealer and get a new game driver on that one.

Vaa’i is no match for his power on the ground. Even in reverse, Meafou is like a tractor motoring backwards in low gear, trampling all in its path.

Vaa'i actually stops him in his tracks. He gets what could have been a dubious 'tackle' on him?

A high-level offence will often try to identify and exploit big forwards who can be slower to reload, and therefore vulnerable to two quick plays run at them consecutively.

Yes he was just standing on his haunches wasn't he? He mentioned that in the interview, saying that not only did you just get up and back into the line to find the opposition was already set and running at you they also hit harder than anything he'd experienced in the Top 14. He was referring to New Zealands ultra-physical, burst-based Super style of course, which he was more than a bit surprised about. I don't blame him for being caught out.


He still sent the obstruction back to the repair yard though!

What wouldn’t the New Zealand rugby public give to see the likes of Mauvaka and Meafou up front..

Common now Nick, don't go there! Meafou showed his Toulouse shirt and promptly got his citizenship, New Zealand can't have him, surely?!?


As I have said before with these subjects, really enjoy your enthusiasm for their contribution on the field and I'd love to see more of their shapes running out for Vern Cotter and the like styled teams.

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