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'Preposterous': 2023 Rugby World Cup draw slammed as England and Australia get dream rides

(Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images,)

The Wallabies have been handed a “dream draw” in the 2023 World Cup while the champion Springboks have drawn the “pool of death”.

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And British media claimed England had scored a big win in the draw, even though they must face World Cup upset specialists Japan and also Argentina, who have just beaten the All Blacks.

There were widespread attacks by world media on rugby bosses for making the draw three years out from the tournament in France.

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Australia, meanwhile, seemed quite happy with its lot.

The Sydney Morning Herald believes Dave Rennie’s Aussie side have struck “almost a best case scenario” in avoiding champions South Africa, the All Blacks or England.

Australia have ended up in a group with Wayne Pivac’s fast fading Wales, who were still seeded highly because rankings from almost a year ago were used as a consequence of the Covid-19 interruptions.

Australia will also play Fiji, who they have beaten in the group stage in the last two tournaments. Georgia might be one of the other two teams in that group.

However, the SMH noted that a pool defeat could have the Aussies heading towards a quarter-final clash with England, the point where their 2019 World Cup came to a halt.

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Rennie told the media: “There’s no easy pool. The three sides that are confirmed in this pool are all really tough.

“Fiji has got amazing athletes and with Vern Cotter in charge, he’ll give them an edge which will be a real difference. We’re all three years away. Our teams are going to change a lot.”

Meanwhile Britain’s Telegraph was drooling over Pool A, which features New Zealand and France who have a storied World Cup history.

“The hosts versus the All Blacks in the pool stages – does not get much better than that,” Jake Goodwill exclaimed.

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“France v New Zealand is going to be a superb match-up.

“…it provides and elite match-up, but with Italy the third ranked side both teams will be very confident of making the quarter-finals.”

He said Pool B, featuring South Africa, Ireland and Scotland, was “probably the toughest”.

“Pool B is, probably, the pool of death this time around.”

England, however, “have a favourable draw in Pool D” alongside Japan and Argentina.

“However it is hard to get a read on Japan as they have not played international rugby since the last World Cup. Argentina and Japan could yet be formidable opponents for Eddie Jones’ side.”

The Telegraph writer gave the draw ceremony and rugby a serve, saying: “Just like the sport itself, this event needs to speed up and stop wasting so much time.”

The Times reckoned “England get kind group draw but path to final is treacherous.”

“It is, of course, fairly preposterous to make such a draw almost three years before the event itself because there is so much time for form to fluctuate,” wrote Owen Slot, the chief rugby correspondent.

“Nevertheless, Japan and Argentina face clear struggles which, at this point at least, appear to play into England’s hands.”

Meanwhile the draw drew hundreds of reader comments in the Guardian, including this one which slammed the premature groupings.

“Anyone else think drawing the final World Cup groups this far in advance is utter madness, especially as the seedings are based on rankings from 11 months ago?,” it stated.

“By the time we reach the tournament…the top four teams could be completely different.”

Another feared that England would “go to the knock-out stages under-cooked”.

In South Africa’s Supersport, Brendan Nel’s opinion piece was headlined “World Rugby’s draw makes as little sense as the rankings they don’t use.”

“By deciding that the rankings go out the window (why are they there in the first place if not to help sort placings for World Cup draws), the governing body has opened up an interesting can of works that will leave France 2023 with a lopsided draw that sees it top-heavy, while the bottom half looks like an absolute dream for Eddie Jones’ England,” he said.

“World Rugby has never really been able to explain why the draw needs to be done in the first year of the next cycle. Sure, organisers will be able to plan better, as will coaches…how many of the 12 qualified coaches will be there when the World Cup rolls around.

“(Rugby watchers know) that the business begins in the quarter-final. By throwing their own rankings out the window World Rugby have ensured that one of the top four sides will definitely not make it past the quarter-finals. It could also mean that (hosts) France could be out in the quarters as well, even though they look to be a dark horse favourite.”

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G
GrahamVF 24 minutes ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

"has SA actually EVER helped to develop another union to maturity like NZ has with Japan," yes - Argentina. You obviously don't know the history of Argentinian rugby. SA were touring there on long development tours in the 1950's

We continued the Junior Bok tours to the Argentine through to the early 70's

My coach at Grey High was Giepie Wentzel who toured Argentine as a fly half. He told me about how every Argentinian rugby club has pictures of Van Heerden and Danie Craven on prominent display. Yes we have developed a nation far more than NZ has done for Japan. And BTW Sa players were playing and coaching in Japan long before the Kiwis arrived. Fourie du Preez and many others were playing there 15 years ago.


"Isaac Van Heerden's reputation as an innovative coach had spread to Argentina, and he was invited to Buenos Aires to help the Pumas prepare for their first visit to South Africa in 1965.[1][2] Despite Argentina faring badly in this tour,[2] it was the start of a long and happy relationship between Van Heerden and the Pumas. Izak van Heerden took leave from his teaching post in Durban, relocated to Argentina, learnt fluent Spanish, and would revolutionise Argentine play in the late 1960s, laying the way open for great players such as Hugo Porta.[1][2] Van Heerden virtually invented the "tight loose" form of play, an area in which the Argentines would come to excel, and which would become a hallmark of their playing style. The Pumas repaid the initial debt, by beating the Junior Springboks at Ellis Park, and emerged as one of the better modern rugby nations, thanks largely to the talents of this Durban schoolmaster.[1]"


After the promise made by Junior Springbok manager JF Louw at the end of a 12-game tour to Argentina in 1959 – ‘I will do everything to ensure we invite you to tour our country’ – there were concerns about the strength of Argentinian rugby. South African Rugby Board president Danie Craven sent coach Izak van Heerden to help the Pumas prepare and they repaid the favour by beating the Junior Springboks at Ellis Park.

149 Go to comments
J
JW 6 hours ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

I rated Lowe well enough to be an AB. Remember we were picking the likes of George Bridge above such players so theres no disputing a lot of bad decisions have been made by those last two coaches. Does a team like the ABs need a finicky winger who you have to adapt and change a lot of your style with to get benefit from? No, not really. But he still would have been a basic improvement on players like even Savea at the tail of his career, Bridge, and could even have converted into the answer of replacing Beauden at the back. Instead we persisted with NMS, Naholo, Havili, Reece, all players we would have cared even less about losing and all because Rieko had Lowe's number 11 jersey nailed down.


He was of course only 23 when he decided to leave, it was back in the beggining of the period they had started retaining players (from 2018 onwards I think, they came out saying theyre going to be more aggressive at some point). So he might, all of them, only just missed out.


The main point that Ed made is that situations like Lowe's, Aki's, JGP's, aren't going to happen in future. That's a bit of a "NZ" only problem, because those players need to reach such a high standard to be chosen by the All Blacks, were as a country like Ireland wants them a lot earlier like that. This is basically the 'ready in 3 years' concept Ireland relied on, versus the '5 years and they've left' concept' were that player is now ready to be chosen by the All Blacks (given a contract to play Super, ala SBW, and hopefully Manu).


The 'mercenary' thing that will take longer to expire, and which I was referring to, is the grandparents rule. The new kids coming through now aren't going to have as many gp born overseas, so the amount of players that can leave with a prospect of International rugby offer are going to drop dramatically at some point. All these kiwi fellas playing for a PI, is going to stop sadly.


The new era problem that will replace those old concerns is now French and Japanese clubs (doing the same as NRL teams have done for decades by) picking kids out of school. The problem here is not so much a national identity one, than it is a farm system where 9 in 10 players are left with nothing. A stunted education and no support in a foreign country (well they'll get kicked out of those countries were they don't in Australia).


It's the same sort of situation were NZ would be the big guy, but there weren't many downsides with it. The only one I can think was brought up but a poster on this site, I can't recall who it was, but he seemed to know a lot of kids coming from the Islands weren't really given the capability to fly back home during school xms holidays etc. That is probably something that should be fixed by the union. Otherwise getting someone like Fakatava over here for his last year of school definitely results in NZ being able to pick the cherries off the top but it also allows that player to develop and be able to represent Tonga and under age and possibly even later in his career. Where as a kid being taken from NZ is arguably going to be worse off in every respect other than perhaps money. Not going to develop as a person, not going to develop as a player as much, so I have a lotof sympathy for NZs case that I don't include them in that group but I certainly see where you're coming from and it encourages other countries to think they can do the same while not realising they're making a much worse experience/situation.

149 Go to comments
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