Steve Borthwick: 'We weren’t beaten, we just ran out of time'

The problem it feels like to me is I didn't hear what Gatland is going to do in order to win the 6N next year. How is he helping the problem. It just sounds like they're expecting miracles and for Gatland to turn around the national teams results, but what good is that when you're not fixing any of the problems and you'll just be back where you were when Gatland and the old players leave?

I think you are totally wrong in your stance. Wales abosolutely need to spend that 500k by investing in their future, it just doesn't sound like theyre giving Gatland any more resources to do it with. They're not using that 500k very well.

One huge cluster#$@% but I think you could be right, I liked O'Connor when he won at the Reds and I've just got a funny feeling he's going to dominate Super Rugby, kinda like how Cooper came back to the Wallabies as an experienced head and spat out South Africa. I think James could do the same with the Blues and other Aus sides. I'd really love Rivez to get a lot of minutes though.

He was of course only 23 when he decided to leave, it was back in the beggining of the period they had started retaining players (from 2018 onwards I think, they came out saying theyre going to be more aggressive at some point). So he might, all of them, only just missed out.

The main point that Ed made is that situations like Lowe's, Aki's, JGP's, aren't going to happen in future. That's a bit of a "NZ" only problem, because those players need to reach such a high standard to be chosen by the All Blacks, were as a country like Ireland wants them a lot earlier like that. This is basically the 'ready in 3 years' concept Ireland relied on, versus the '5 years and they've left' concept' were that player is now ready to be chosen by the All Blacks (given a contract to play Super, ala SBW, and hopefully Manu).

The 'mercenary' thing that will take longer to expire, and which I was referring to, is the grandparents rule. The new kids coming through now aren't going to have as many gp born overseas, so the amount of players that can leave with a prospect of International rugby offer are going to drop dramatically at some point. All these kiwi fellas playing for a PI, is going to stop sadly.

The new era problem that will replace those old concerns is now French and Japanese clubs (doing the same as NRL teams have done for decades by) picking kids out of school. The problem here is not so much a national identity one, than it is a farm system where 9 in 10 players are left with nothing. A stunted education and no support in a foreign country (well they'll get kicked out of those countries were they don't in Australia).

It's the same sort of situation were NZ would be the big guy, but there weren't many downsides with it. The only one I can think was brought up but a poster on this site, I can't recall who it was, but he seemed to know a lot of kids coming from the Islands weren't really given the capability to fly back home during school xms holidays etc. That is probably something that should be fixed by the union. Otherwise getting someone like Fakatava over here for his last year of school definitely results in NZ being able to pick the cherries off the top but it also allows that player to develop and be able to represent Tonga and under age and possibly even later in his career. Where as a kid being taken from NZ is arguably going to be worse off in every respect other than perhaps money. Not going to develop as a person, not going to develop as a player as much, so I have a lotof sympathy for NZs case that I don't include them in that group but I certainly see where you're coming from and it encourages other countries to think they can do the same while not realising they're making a much worse experience/situation.

WR does NOT schedule matches for the big unions. It is a big union problem, not a problem for WR to fix for once.

NZ regularly plays games against PI nations, Japan, and USA, expanding their unions and markets. What has SA done for the game, aside from winning RWCs and playing some really good rugby?

Nothing.

Remember they'll be for all forms of rugby, and 'competition's as well as proper club leagues, for some of the more unique countries in the list. But yes, its fairly interesting what countries are getting upto with the game, Sri Lanka are just off that list. Have you watched Rugged Rugby on Netflix?

I really should check those references on Wales numbers. I had heard it was super popular down through the community, a bit like France in the south, but I'm still surprised by them. NZs mens numbers rose by 5% this year. Google list of rugby union playing countries.

But yes, you wouldn't want it to come to the detriment of other countries, thankfully that's not happening imo.

They certainly aren't going to go to Scotland if theres no jobs.

They other thing I noted is that he appeared to have a bench backup on those equations. UBB never tried to create a player who can act as his cover and go with a bigger forward split on the bench? Would seem like the perfect opportunity.

There's definitely a case for countries to get together for their own benefit as it's such a young sport everything is evolving and theres plenty of knowledge out their (from sports like football) to help that along. SANZAAR is the perfect example.