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The obvious question as URC sides sew up Champions Cup

London Irish v Stormers – Heineken Champions Cup – Pool B – Gtech Community Stadium

If anyone doubted the strength and quality of the competition in the United Rugby Championship (URC), the pool phase that has just been completed in the Heineken Champions Cup has delivered a firm riposte.

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The last 16 has now been reached, with that round of matches scheduled for the weekend of 31 March through to 2 April, and there are eight URC teams left in the competition. You can do the maths – 50% of the remaining competitors are URC sides, with the other two competitions, the French Top 14 and the Gallagher Premiership, sharing the other eight.
The three South African teams all advanced to the round of 16 at the first time of trying, but it was some of the European teams that provided the big surprise. None more so than the Ospreys, who for the first time in many years have managed to get out of the Pool phase. And that during a season where they are still in the lower third on the URC log.

The extent of the Ospreys achievement can be measured by the fact that along the way to qualifying for the next round, they beat the champions of both France and England. Indeed, they beat the French champions, Montpellier, twice, both home and away. They edged out English champions Leicester Tigers by one point this past weekend, with the significant aspect of that result being that it was away at Welford Road.

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Edinburgh have also been styling in the Champions Cup while not necessarily enjoying a particularly successful URC season. They ended fifth in Pool A, but only missed out on the top four position that would have clinched them home ground advantage in the single round last 16 stage was an inferior points difference to the Cell C Sharks and Saracens, who also ended with 15 log points and ended third and fourth respectively.

It means the Sharks get to play at home against fellow URC team Munster, while Edinburgh are travelling to Leicester Tigers. After what Ospreys did to Leicester in the final pool game, and given the form Edinburgh have been in, you wouldn’t necessarily bet against them advancing to the quarterfinals.
There are two URC teams in the top two at the end of the group stage in Pool A, while the Stormers were third in Pool B. The Ospreys finished fifth in Pool B with Munster sixth, while Ulster, under pressure for so much of the season, managed to squeak into the round of 16 by avenging their first round defeat to Sale Sharks with a good win at home at the Kingspan this past weekend.

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Given that Ulster took champions LaRochelle to the final move of the game in their previous match, and it was away at a particularly intimidating venue, it can now be argued that the men from Belfast have turned the corner and are picking up some momentum. The URC champions, the Stormers, will have that in mind when the visit the Kingspan for a crucial top of the table URC game on Friday night.

The success of the likes of Edinburgh and the Ospreys begs a question – has the South African inclusion in the URC already started to have the effect of improving the quality of competition to the point it makes the URC teams more formidable in Europe?

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It is a fair question to ponder, notwithstanding the appearance that some of the French sides, very aware of the perils presented by the two team relegation format in the Top 14, could be holding back at this point of the competition.

Only three French teams made it to the round of 16 – Toulouse, LaRochelle and Montpellier – as against five English teams. It is interesting to note though that the recent French success stories are all through. What is also interesting is that the two protagonists in last year’s thrilling Champions Cup final in Marseille, eventual winners LaRochelle and Leinster, top the two logs.

There’s good reason to believe though that Leinster should be the favoured team this year. By heading Pool A, the Dublin based outfit have managed ensure they will have home ground advantage on their side all the way through the playoffs, because Aviva Stadium is already the designated venue for the decider.

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Leinster have indeed been in imperious form and their march through both the URC and Champions Cup has been an inexorable one thus far. They managed 20 log points from their four games in the group stage, meaning a full house of five points, including a four try bonus, in every game they played.

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The situation in the Challenge Cup is equally as positive for the URC, with the South African entrants from the URC, the Emirates Lions, being joined by Scarlets, Benetton, Connacht, Glasgow, the Dragons and Cardiff in the round of 16. That is seven teams, so if you consider that four teams drop out of the Champions Cup to compete in this phase of the Challenge Cup, it is a more than 50 per cent success rate.

Indeed, the only URC team that won’t be playing when round of 16 games are staged in the two competitions is Zebre Parma, who might feel they are represented by the Toyota Cheetahs, the wild cards from South Africa who are using the Zebres’ Parma headquarters as their home base.

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J
JW 4 hours ago
‘The problem with this year’s Champions Cup? Too many English clubs’

Yep, that's exactly what I want.

Glasgow won the URC and Edinburgh finished 16th, but Scotland won the six nations, Edinburgh would qualify for the Champions Cup under your system.

It's 'or'. If Glasgow won the URC or Scotland won the six nations. If one of those happens I believe it will (or should) be because the league is in a strong place, and that if a Scotland side can do that, there next best club team should be allowed to reach for the same and that would better serve the advancement of the game.


Now, of course picking a two team league like Scotland is the extreme case of your argument, but I'm happy for you to make it. First, Edinbourgh are a good mid table team, so they are deserving, as my concept would have predicted, of the opportunity to show can step up. Second, you can't be making a serious case that Gloucester are better based on beating them, surely. You need to read Nicks latest article on SA for a current perspective on road teams in the EPCR. Christ, you can even follow Gloucester and look at the team they put out the following week to know that those games are meaningless.


More importantly, third. Glasgow are in a league/pool with Italy, So the next team to be given a spot in my technically imperfect concept would be Benneton. To be fair to my idea that's still in it's infancy, I haven't given any thought to those 'two team' leagues/countries yet, and I'm not about to 😋

They would be arguably worse if they didn't win the Challenge Cup.

Incorrect. You aren't obviously familiar with knockout football Finn, it's a 'one off' game. But in any case, that's not your argument. You're trying to suggest they're not better than the fourth ranked team in the Challenge Cup that hasn't already qualified in their own league, so that could be including quarter finalists. I have already given you an example of a team that is the first to get knocked out by the champions not getting a fair ranking to a team that loses to one of the worst of the semi final teams (for example).

Sharks are better

There is just so much wrong with your view here. First, the team that you are knocking out for this, are the Stormers, who weren't even in the Challenge Cup. They were the 7th ranked team in the Champions Cup. I've also already said there is good precedent to allow someone outside the league table who was heavily impacted early in the season by injury to get through by winning Challenge Cup. You've also lost the argument that Sharks qualify as the third (their two best are in my league qualification system) South African team (because a SAn team won the CC, it just happened to be them) in my system. I'm doubt that's the last of reasons to be found either.


Your system doesn't account for performance or changes in their domestic leagues models, and rely's heavily on an imperfect and less effective 'winner takes all' model.

Giving more incentives to do well in the Challenge Cup will make people take it more seriously. My system does that and yours doesn't.

No your systems doesn't. Not all the time/circumstances. You literally just quoted me describing how they aren't going to care about Challenge Cup if they are already qualifying through league performance. They are also not going to hinder their chance at high seed in the league and knockout matches, for the pointless prestige of the Challenge Cup.


My idea fixes this by the suggesting that say a South African or Irish side would actually still have some desire to win one of their own sides a qualification spot if they win the Challenge Cup though. I'll admit, its not the strongest incentive, but it is better than your nothing. I repeat though, if your not balance entries, or just my assignment, then obviously winning the Challenge Cup should get you through, but your idea of 4th place getting in a 20 team EPCR? Cant you see the difference lol


Not even going to bother finishing that last paragraph. 8 of 10 is not an equal share.

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