The sobering career statistic highlighted to England's uncapped 12

Rieko has been having ‘quiet’ games for the Blues and ABs for years now. So this is hardly news.

Rieko (for some reason) has a mortgage on that 13 jersey, and given Proctor is off contract soon I’d say he’ll be gone. With the returning Leicester Fainga’anuku playing 13 in the NH, and apparently no way past Ioane and ALB (no matter how poorly they both play) who would blame Proctor if he did leave.

And let’s face it—Ireland’s “Project” Player plan was so on the nose that WR moved from a 3- to 5-year residency just to address what Ireland was doing.

Whilst you highlight how the players improved because of the coaching they received in Ireland, I think that, to a large part, you can ask how they would have developed in NZ if they had remained?

Aki was on the AB radar and JGP and Lowe were Super Level and Maori ABs, I think all of those players if they had remained in NZ, would have pushed for National Honours, but it’s one of those woulda, coulda moments.

However, they are an example of what has and is occurring in NZ.

And that is Mid-tier players can’t afford to wait around and hope they develop into ABs. They give it a go for a number of years, but there comes a time when they need to bank some money to build some financial security.

A prime example is Folau Fakatava. If he can’t crack the ABs (think his contract ends this year), I would expect him to head offshore, and then, like JGP, as he ages and gains further experience, I would bet that he turns into the WC player he has the potential to be.

Market forces etc - not great for NZ or Oz, but a simple reality of life.

For me I think 10 goes to Tom Lynagh and then toss up between BD & NL . No 8 is slightly more difficult. I think 2 of the players mentioned need to be either in the starting line up & the other 2 on the bench. Plus we still have Tom Hooper.

One thing I have noticed is that Fraser McR hasn’t been as dominant since his injury will Harry W bounce back with limited game time.

If you look back at the England series here in 2022 English forwards seem to bully the WBs both in the forwards and inside backs (9&10) and the pressure told. Throw in a few mad Irishmen & Scots it will only go up a gear. Our tight 5 and outside backs will withstand the pressure as they have matured its our back 3 (Bobby V can’t do it on his own) and 9 & 10. Jake Gordon at 9 is tough enough but Nick White will get distracted by the BS from the BIL forwards not sure about Tate

Both found a way to enjoy their rugby careers in ways other than just via pure God-given talent!

France have sidestepped that by hunting for teenagers who will become eligible with the bulk of their careers still ahead of them. And I don’t think RA is in a financial position to offer them a deal - it’s relying on the Lions an two WCs to dig itself out of big financial hole over the next few years.

I agree that players have to look after themselves and their families first. It’s short career and it doesn’t prepare you for anything that follows in life, unless it’s coaching or punditry!

He has size and French clubs love that, but he’s still very very raw and he’s 22 now.

If clubs from NZ and Aussie do start striking such deals, I think they need to be careful about where their players are seeded. Even Exeter are in big trouble atm, they lost by almost 80 points to Gloucester at the weekend.

JOC looks very comfortable in what he’s doing over in Christchurch GP. He has a role and he’s accepted it and made the most of it. Not all players are mature enough to do that.