The Springboks verdict on England's much-vaunted back row

One huge cluster#$@% but I think you could be right, I liked O'Connor when he won at the Reds and I've just got a funny feeling he's going to dominate Super Rugby, kinda like how Cooper came back to the Wallabies as an experienced head and spat out South Africa. I think James could do the same with the Blues and other Aus sides. I'd really love Rivez to get a lot of minutes though.

He was of course only 23 when he decided to leave, it was back in the beggining of the period they had started retaining players (from 2018 onwards I think, they came out saying theyre going to be more aggressive at some point). So he might, all of them, only just missed out.

The main point that Ed made is that situations like Lowe's, Aki's, JGP's, aren't going to happen in future. That's a bit of a "NZ" only problem, because those players need to reach such a high standard to be chosen by the All Blacks, were as a country like Ireland wants them a lot earlier like that. This is basically the 'ready in 3 years' concept Ireland relied on, versus the '5 years and they've left' concept' were that player is now ready to be chosen by the All Blacks (given a contract to play Super, ala SBW, and hopefully Manu).

The 'mercenary' thing that will take longer to expire, and which I was referring to, is the grandparents rule. The new kids coming through now aren't going to have as many gp born overseas, so the amount of players that can leave with a prospect of International rugby offer are going to drop dramatically at some point. All these kiwi fellas playing for a PI, is going to stop sadly.

The new era problem that will replace those old concerns is now French and Japanese clubs (doing the same as NRL teams have done for decades by) picking kids out of school. The problem here is not so much a national identity one, than it is a farm system where 9 in 10 players are left with nothing. A stunted education and no support in a foreign country (well they'll get kicked out of those countries were they don't in Australia).

It's the same sort of situation were NZ would be the big guy, but there weren't many downsides with it. The only one I can think was brought up but a poster on this site, I can't recall who it was, but he seemed to know a lot of kids coming from the Islands weren't really given the capability to fly back home during school xms holidays etc. That is probably something that should be fixed by the union. Otherwise getting someone like Fakatava over here for his last year of school definitely results in NZ being able to pick the cherries off the top but it also allows that player to develop and be able to represent Tonga and under age and possibly even later in his career. Where as a kid being taken from NZ is arguably going to be worse off in every respect other than perhaps money. Not going to develop as a person, not going to develop as a player as much, so I have a lotof sympathy for NZs case that I don't include them in that group but I certainly see where you're coming from and it encourages other countries to think they can do the same while not realising they're making a much worse experience/situation.

WR does NOT schedule matches for the big unions. It is a big union problem, not a problem for WR to fix for once.

NZ regularly plays games against PI nations, Japan, and USA, expanding their unions and markets. What has SA done for the game, aside from winning RWCs and playing some really good rugby?

Nothing.

Remember they'll be for all forms of rugby, and 'competition's as well as proper club leagues, for some of the more unique countries in the list. But yes, its fairly interesting what countries are getting upto with the game, Sri Lanka are just off that list. Have you watched Rugged Rugby on Netflix?

I really should check those references on Wales numbers. I had heard it was super popular down through the community, a bit like France in the south, but I'm still surprised by them. NZs mens numbers rose by 5% this year. Google list of rugby union playing countries.

But yes, you wouldn't want it to come to the detriment of other countries, thankfully that's not happening imo.

They certainly aren't going to go to Scotland if theres no jobs.

They other thing I noted is that he appeared to have a bench backup on those equations. UBB never tried to create a player who can act as his cover and go with a bigger forward split on the bench? Would seem like the perfect opportunity.

There's definitely a case for countries to get together for their own benefit as it's such a young sport everything is evolving and theres plenty of knowledge out their (from sports like football) to help that along. SANZAAR is the perfect example.

The issue that I pointed out to JV is he was acting like France's is solved/resolved, when it is clearly not. But yes, no is acknowledge SA's 2 months off shouldn't be consecutively, were just also not losing site that French players only have 1 month off and that introduces worse R&R.

By the same token as your criticism of HHT, you two are guilty of doing the same thing. You just don't like what the data says so you go on the attack LOL.

Lucu is the exact same yet you were suggesting he's supposedly worked harder as a Bordeaux player (and he is in a way it's just a credit to the clubs). Someone like Ratima played the same amount of games this year. Gordon, who plays for a country with probably the best player welfare policy and structure (they aren't pushed as hard for coutnry) played a similar amount of minutes than Dupont averages. Fakatava had 24 games this year. Mitchell has got upto 30 games twice in the last 3 years.

It is the club with the big season, not the players, that is ensured in part by them being managed by clun abd country. But you can't suggest another couple of games against NZ for instance is too much. The issue is categorically the length of the club season, whether playing or not, it adds wear. It's just as I described earlier, where I think SA has a better more aligned/clear respite periods (I'm not really sure how French clubs manage it, just looks like sometimes they don't travel to away games), and perhaps that's why they're perceivably getting more/better use out of their players?