Werner Kok treble sees Sharks down Scarlets in Llanelli

You realise no one is going to gain entry through performance in the champions cup right? When was the last time a team was good enough to reach the best four in europe but not in their own league?

You could do what I suggest and add that qualification to the league. You might find it more palatable if you flip the sequence in CC qualifcation. The first way a team qualifies for top seed (this probably already happens in some respect) is by winning it the previous year, then that is through to fourth seed. Then comes the "guarenteed" league spots, so if a French side finishes 1 and 4 four instance, those two are in, then the four most ranked teams in France are allicated, so have 6 team entry (possible more if you also doing Challenge). It is basically my idea but on steroids, x4.

Otherwise, like I've already said, you're first likely to be looking at Challenge, getting a few their, then back to Champions quarters I'd imagine.

But yea, my main explaination was in reply to the idea that Alan seemed to have thnking you were suggesting looking at Champions finishes well past the quarter stage. And I don't think you were suggesting that were you.

For the selection do we agree on last year's winer qualifying automatically?

Do we agree on using the UEFA system? If yes what should be the maximum (and minimum) teams per league?

I would say say max 7 (including last year's winner)

So that would mean for next year:

7 top14

5 prem

4 URC

Why are you avoiding that question?

Is it because you insisted you weren't implying a 1 to 1 correspondence between the proportion of teams from each league that make the semis, and the proportion of teams from each league that should qualify for the competition, when you clearly were?

I think so too, but as I've said, I'm in favour of a structure that needs as little change as possible in the future. And at some point, a 'chance' to make it by winning challenge cup etc, is not going to cut it. I'm talking lasting another 20 years until maybe Europe is fully on board and lots of nations can handle one or two elite pro teams, then I'd be happy with another revamp.

But how many changes has CC/EPCR gone through? I'm just worried its a reason for it's current decline (not having followed it ever I wouldn't know of course).

"Why it wouldn't be half French teams? If we use the last 5 years history it will. Unless you are thinking of a max number per domestic league. What would that number be then? 6? 7?"

Jesus Christ. You insisted you weren't using maths like that.

Maybe you need to look up how the UEFA system actually works.