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Why it's not 'entirely a bad thing' for Australian players to move overseas

Eddie Jones Andy Marinos. Photo by Matt King/Getty Images)

Andy Marinos concedes Rugby Australia needs to step up its talent identification to avoid losing more Mack Hansen’s and the like to international rivals.

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But the RA chief doesn’t believe players moving from country to country is necessarily a bad thing for the code.

After representing Australia at the 2018 under-20s World Cup and playing 21 games for the ACT Brumbies, Hansen has proven a revelation since switching allegiance to Ireland.

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The electrifying fullback-cum-winger is the latest emerging star to turn his back on Wallabies opportunities, with ex-Rebels centre Sione Tuipulotu killing it for Scotland after following his grandmother’s heritage.

Turning 29 next month, former NSW Waratahs forward Jack Dempsey is also excelling for Scotland after being overlooked for the Wallabies after playing 14 Tests.

But it’s the defection of younger players, including Jack Cornelsen and Dylan Riley, who chose Japan over Australia, that is becoming a bigger concern for Wallabies fans.

Tuipulotu’s younger brother Mosese, 21, a centre at the Waratahs, is reportedly being hotly pursued by Scotland.

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“I don’t see it as being entirely a bad thing, to be quite honest,” Marinos said on Thursday.

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“A lot of the time, and there’s been many examples of it over the last decade, where a player is probably just a journeyman in their own country and they go into a new environment and they get a new lease of life and that’s positive for the world game.

“The big thing that’s got to come back into our system in terms of that early identification is making sure we’re getting the right talent into the right pathways early and nurturing and looking after that talent.

“The movement of players is going to continue; with changes to regulations and eligibility after the stand-down period, that certainly has opened up that chasm a lot wider for us.

“But I’m of the view that you don’t necessarily frown upon it all the time.

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“We’ve just got to sort out our own back yard and make sure that we keep our best talent and not let those ones slip out.”

Marinos is taking a philosophical approach, especially while acknowledging RA is still in the midst of recovering from the financially crippling COVID-19 period when the governing body recorded a $27 million loss in 2020 alone.

“The reality is you can’t keep everyone,” he said.

“I’m sure Mac Hansen probably would have (been a great Wallaby).

“He had an opportunity to go abroad and he’s made the best of that and you’ve got to wish him well and celebrate that.”

Marinos was speaking after joining Rugby Union Players’ Association chief Justin Harrison in announcing the finalisation of the new four-year collective bargaining agreement.

After a turbulent period under Raelene Castle’s leadership, Harrison believes RA and RUPA are now far more united to take the game forward post-pandemic.

“It took us a while to get there, and a bit of regime change as well, but we think from then on that all parties have come together with an interest to grow the game,” Harrison said.

“The players are most pleased about being recognised as a partner in the game.

“The eras of schoolboy/headmaster, schoolgirl/headmistress notion of being told what to do and how to do it and ‘we’ll tell you when we’re ready’, there’s certainly been different now.”

While bonuses have been reinstated for the Wallabies, who took a big financial hit during COVID, Australia’s top women’s rugby players also received a pay boost.

RA will contract up to 35 players with the potential to earn $52,000, while paid maternity leave has also been ratified.

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G
GrahamVF 25 minutes ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

"has SA actually EVER helped to develop another union to maturity like NZ has with Japan," yes - Argentina. You obviously don't know the history of Argentinian rugby. SA were touring there on long development tours in the 1950's

We continued the Junior Bok tours to the Argentine through to the early 70's

My coach at Grey High was Giepie Wentzel who toured Argentine as a fly half. He told me about how every Argentinian rugby club has pictures of Van Heerden and Danie Craven on prominent display. Yes we have developed a nation far more than NZ has done for Japan. And BTW Sa players were playing and coaching in Japan long before the Kiwis arrived. Fourie du Preez and many others were playing there 15 years ago.


"Isaac Van Heerden's reputation as an innovative coach had spread to Argentina, and he was invited to Buenos Aires to help the Pumas prepare for their first visit to South Africa in 1965.[1][2] Despite Argentina faring badly in this tour,[2] it was the start of a long and happy relationship between Van Heerden and the Pumas. Izak van Heerden took leave from his teaching post in Durban, relocated to Argentina, learnt fluent Spanish, and would revolutionise Argentine play in the late 1960s, laying the way open for great players such as Hugo Porta.[1][2] Van Heerden virtually invented the "tight loose" form of play, an area in which the Argentines would come to excel, and which would become a hallmark of their playing style. The Pumas repaid the initial debt, by beating the Junior Springboks at Ellis Park, and emerged as one of the better modern rugby nations, thanks largely to the talents of this Durban schoolmaster.[1]"


After the promise made by Junior Springbok manager JF Louw at the end of a 12-game tour to Argentina in 1959 – ‘I will do everything to ensure we invite you to tour our country’ – there were concerns about the strength of Argentinian rugby. South African Rugby Board president Danie Craven sent coach Izak van Heerden to help the Pumas prepare and they repaid the favour by beating the Junior Springboks at Ellis Park.

149 Go to comments
J
JW 6 hours ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

I rated Lowe well enough to be an AB. Remember we were picking the likes of George Bridge above such players so theres no disputing a lot of bad decisions have been made by those last two coaches. Does a team like the ABs need a finicky winger who you have to adapt and change a lot of your style with to get benefit from? No, not really. But he still would have been a basic improvement on players like even Savea at the tail of his career, Bridge, and could even have converted into the answer of replacing Beauden at the back. Instead we persisted with NMS, Naholo, Havili, Reece, all players we would have cared even less about losing and all because Rieko had Lowe's number 11 jersey nailed down.


He was of course only 23 when he decided to leave, it was back in the beggining of the period they had started retaining players (from 2018 onwards I think, they came out saying theyre going to be more aggressive at some point). So he might, all of them, only just missed out.


The main point that Ed made is that situations like Lowe's, Aki's, JGP's, aren't going to happen in future. That's a bit of a "NZ" only problem, because those players need to reach such a high standard to be chosen by the All Blacks, were as a country like Ireland wants them a lot earlier like that. This is basically the 'ready in 3 years' concept Ireland relied on, versus the '5 years and they've left' concept' were that player is now ready to be chosen by the All Blacks (given a contract to play Super, ala SBW, and hopefully Manu).


The 'mercenary' thing that will take longer to expire, and which I was referring to, is the grandparents rule. The new kids coming through now aren't going to have as many gp born overseas, so the amount of players that can leave with a prospect of International rugby offer are going to drop dramatically at some point. All these kiwi fellas playing for a PI, is going to stop sadly.


The new era problem that will replace those old concerns is now French and Japanese clubs (doing the same as NRL teams have done for decades by) picking kids out of school. The problem here is not so much a national identity one, than it is a farm system where 9 in 10 players are left with nothing. A stunted education and no support in a foreign country (well they'll get kicked out of those countries were they don't in Australia).


It's the same sort of situation were NZ would be the big guy, but there weren't many downsides with it. The only one I can think was brought up but a poster on this site, I can't recall who it was, but he seemed to know a lot of kids coming from the Islands weren't really given the capability to fly back home during school xms holidays etc. That is probably something that should be fixed by the union. Otherwise getting someone like Fakatava over here for his last year of school definitely results in NZ being able to pick the cherries off the top but it also allows that player to develop and be able to represent Tonga and under age and possibly even later in his career. Where as a kid being taken from NZ is arguably going to be worse off in every respect other than perhaps money. Not going to develop as a person, not going to develop as a player as much, so I have a lotof sympathy for NZs case that I don't include them in that group but I certainly see where you're coming from and it encourages other countries to think they can do the same while not realising they're making a much worse experience/situation.

149 Go to comments
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