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Winning isn't everything - but neither is the Rugby World Cup

Eddie Jones and Ian Foster. (Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images)

After a tumultuous run of results throughout the international season, Eddie Jones’ tenure as head coach of England has come to an end.

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Losses to Scotland, Ireland and France throughout the Six Nations left many uneasy but an away series win against an underperforming Wallabies side in July quietened some of the discourse. There was little to like about November, however, with a solitary win over Japan sandwiched between defeats to Argentina and South Africa and a draw with New Zealand.

Jones, however, has always made the case that there’s light at the end of the tunnel.

While England haven’t been winning matches, success at the 2023 World Cup has always been the end goal for Jones.

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“I’m disappointed – disappointed for the fans, for the players,” Jones said following the Six Nations. “I obviously haven’t done a good enough job, I accept that, but we’re moving in the right direction. The results aren’t good enough. When you rebuild a team, it takes time.

“We have got a lot of good young players coming through and some of the older guys are starting to play some really good rugby again, so we are going to have a good blend going through to the World Cup.

“The results aren’t the results we’d like – we’d all like to be winning tournaments and be at the top of the table, but we’re not quite good enough to do that now. But within the next 12 to 14 months when we prepare for the World Cup, we will be. We’ve got 12 Tests before the World Cup and if you look at that, it means guys like Freddie and Marcus and Harry are going to increase their Test experience by 100 per cent in that period.

“There is a great learning experience for them. I think the timing for our team going into the World Cup is very good.”

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Jones has trotted out a similar line over the past four years – ever since he took England to the final at the last edition of the flagship tournament – and the powers that be have stuck by him. November proved too much for the RFU, however, and while they’ve never been too disheartened at England’s unsavoury record over the past two campaigns, believing in Jones’ vision, they’ve evidently decided that things aren’t simply going to come right at France 2023.

Now one of the most successful World Cup coaches in the history of the game could be without a team at next year’s competition.

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Across the ocean, another premier side has faced a similarly troubling era.

Ian Foster took charge of New Zealand following the 2019 World Cup and results have been less than impressive, to say the least.

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Although the All Blacks have bagged back-to-back-to-back Rugby Championship titles (or a Tri-Nations in 2020 when South Africa weren’t involved), you suspect that they would not have faired any better than England in the Six Nations, with Ireland and France clearly the two best sides in the world at present.

Historic home losses to Ireland and Argentina throughout Foster’s tenure have also blighted the All Blacks’ name while the win rate over the past three years has been down there with some of the worst in any coach’s history with the NZ national side.

Justin Marshall summed it up well at the end of the 2021 season:

“The way the All Blacks are playing, there are probably very few people out there that are convinced they can win the World Cup but even if they do manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat, the aura of the All Blacks is being seriously damaged by their current performances.

“Until last weekend, the All Blacks hadn’t lost in Paris for half a century. Until last year, Argentina had never beaten the All Blacks. The records will keep tumbling if the current side can’t turn things around and even a World Cup win won’t reverse historic defeats.

“The All Blacks have never been a side that slowly builds towards major competitions, we’ve never been a team that targets World Cups and says ‘We’re learning, we’ll get there’. The pathway to the World Cup is equally as important as the World Cup itself and right now, the current results just aren’t good enough.”

The records did keep tumbling in 2022 and while Foster has effectively stuck to the same mantra as Jones – that the team is building towards the Rugby World Cup and things will ‘come right’ in time for the tournament opener in Paris – NZ and England shouldn’t be comfortable with peaking at the World Cup while taking losses in the years in-between.

Even ignoring the record subsidence that’s gone on over the past few years for both nations, there’s not been much in the way of evidence to suggest that either team really is building for the World Cup.

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New Zealand’s patchy 2021 was followed up by a patchy 2022 and while there were a few good wins throughout this year’s campaign, the point remains that the All Blacks don’t look any closer to being able to account for Ireland, France or South Africa (consistently, at least) after struggling against the likes of Argentina, Australia and Scotland.

In England’s case, Jones has often talked about how the side is rebuilding ahead of 2023 but in last month’s World Cup final rematch between England and the Springboks, it was Jones’ men who more closely resembled their team from three years prior.

While the South Africa side that hoisted the Rugby World Cup in 2019 will obviously go down as world champions, they won’t be remembered as one of the best of all time because of their performances in the years surrounding the tournament – and England and New Zealand now find themselves in the same boat.

The primary focus on the World Cup – ostensibly at the cost of all else – has resulted in Eddie Jones losing his post with England and All Blacks coach Ian Foster almost found himself in a similar predicament. For the top nations in the world, it should be evident that head coaches can’t hang your flag on ‘simply’ leading a team to success at the World Cup – they have to offer something more. Jones hasn’t done that and now he’s paid the price.

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7 Comments
L
LjA 740 days ago

Put test matches back on mainstream tv so everyone can watch them again. When I was young my brothers and I, like everyone else in New Zealand would get up at 3am and watch All Blacks games at Twickenham with that Scottish commentator and the deafening crowds and every boy in New Zealand wanted to be an All Black. Now - who's playing where? What are the AB's names? What was the score against Scotland last month? No one I asked knows any more, you have to search around on Youtube for little titbits of the game. We were the best in the world because it was our national sport , the whole country got behind them and wanted to be them. That's all slipping away as are Rugby Clubs and interest in the game because in my opinion, no one or not everyone see's or hears about rugby now, no more Super Rugby on a Friday night, who has Sky? Times are hard for young families. America is attempting to build the sport up over there and in doing so have live Rugby available to everyone on RugbyPass you just have to join and you can watch all games for free, because anyone with half a brain knows that to make a sport successful you cannot make it hard for people to follow/watch or limit your viewers and therefore supporters. Wake up NZRFU is the money from Sky going to be worth it in the big picture? It's just my opinion, best bet would be to get the figures off Sky with regard to membership and how many NZer's therefore are watching a test now compared to when we were the best in the world.

G
Graeme 740 days ago

This is how I see it. Lose the opening game of the RWC against France 🇫🇷. Qualify second in pool play. Then lose to South Africa 🇿🇦 in the quarter finish. Then the ABs are finished.

J
Jmann 741 days ago

excuse me but NZ have won 7 of their last 10 games against SA. And 14 of their last 15 against France.

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J
JW 4 hours ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

In another recent article I tried to argue for a few key concept changes for EPCR which I think could light the game up in the North.


First, I can't remember who pointed out the obvious elephant in the room (a SA'n poster?), it's a terrible time to play rugby in the NH, and especially your pinnacle tournament. It's been terrible watching with seemingly all the games I wanted to watch being in the dark, hardly able to see what was going on. The Aviva was the only stadium I saw that had lights that could handle the miserable rain. If the global appeal is there, they could do a lot better having day games.


They other primary idea I thuoght would benefit EPCR most, was more content. The Prem could do with it and the Top14 could do with something more important than their own league, so they aren't under so much pressure to sell games. The quality over quantity approach.


Trim it down to two 16 team EPCR competitions, and introduce a third for playing amongst the T2 sides, or the bottom clubs in each league should simply be working on being better during the EPCR.


Champions Cup is made up of league best 15 teams, + 1, the Challenge Cup winner. Without a reason not to, I'd distribute it evenly based on each leauge, dividing into thirds and rounded up, 6 URC 5 Top14 4 English. Each winner (all four) is #1 rank and I'd have a seeding round or two for the other 12 to determine their own brackets for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. I'd then hold a 6 game pool, home and away, with consecutive of each for those games that involve SA'n teams. Preferrably I'd have a regional thing were all SA'n teams were in the same pool but that's a bit complex for this simple idea.


That pool round further finalises the seeding for knockout round of 16. So #1 pool has essentially duked it out for finals seeding already (better venue planning), and to see who they go up against 16, 15,etc etc. Actually I think I might prefer a single pool round for seeding, and introduce the home and away for Ro16, quarters, and semis (stuffs up venue hire). General idea to produce the most competitive matches possible until the random knockout phase, and fix the random lottery of which two teams get ranked higher after pool play, and also keep the system identical for the Challenge Cup so everthing is succinct. Top T2 side promoted from last year to make 16 in Challenge Cup

207 Go to comments
J
JW 9 hours ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

I had a look at the wiki article again, it's all terribly old data (not that I'd see reason for much change in the case of SA).

Number Of Clubs:

1526

Registered+Unregistered Players:

651146

Number of Referees:

3460

Pre-teen Male Players:

320842

Pre-teen Female Player:

4522

Teen Male Player:

199213

Teen Female Player:

4906

Senior Male Player:

113174

Senior Female Player:

8489

Total Male Player:

633229

Total Female Player:

17917


So looking for something new as were more concerned with adults specifically, so I had a look at their EOY Financial Review.

The total number of clubs remains consistent, with a marginal increase of 1% from 1,161 to 1,167. 8.1.

A comparative analysis of verified data for 2022 and 2023 highlights a marginal decline of 1% in the number of female players, declining from 6,801 to 6,723. Additionally, the total number of players demonstrates an 8% decrease, dropping from 96,172 to 88,828.

So 80k+ adult males (down from 113k), but I'm not really sure when youth are involved with SAn clubs, or if that data is for some reason not being referenced/included. 300k male students however (200k in old wiki data).


https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2020/07/28/212ed9cf-cd61-4fa3-b9d4-9f0d5fb61116/P56-57-Participation-Map_v3.pdf has France at 250k registered but https://presse-europe1-fr.translate.goog/exclu-europe-1-le-top-10-des-sports-les-plus-pratiques-en-france-en-2022/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp has them back up at 300k registered.


The French number likely Students + Club, but everyone collects data different I reckon. In that WR pdf for instance a lot of the major nations have a heavily registered setup, were as a nation like England can penetrate into a lot more schools to run camps and include them in the reach of rugby. For instance the SARU release says only 29% of schools are reached by proper rugby programs, where as the 2million English number would be through a much much higer penetration I'd imagine. Which is thanks to schools having the ability to involve themselves in programs more than anything.


In any case, I don't think you need to be concerned with the numbers, whether they are 300 or 88k, there is obviously a big enough following for their pro scenes already to have enough quality players for a 10/12 team competition. They appear ibgger than France but I don't really by the lower English numbers going around.

207 Go to comments
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