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World Cup winning captain reflects on All Blacks’ intense rivalry with France

The All Blacks performing the Haka prior the Autumn Nations Series match between France and New Zealand on November 20, 2021 in Paris, France. (Photo by Lionel Hahn/Getty Images)

Having walked up into the stands at Auckland’s Eden Park in 1987, All Blacks captain David Kirk awaited a moment that will echo throughout rugby history forever.

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Captain Kirk scored one of the All Blacks’ three tries as they ran away with a convincing 29-9 victory over France in the first-ever Rugby World Cup final.

Playing in front of more than 48,000 vibrant supporters at Auckland’s Eden Park, New Zealand proved that they were “the best in the world.”

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Kirk shook the hand of IRB chairman Albert Ferrasse as the halfback was handed the sought-after trophy. Then, with a grin on his face, Kirk became the first captain to lift the Webb Ellis Cup.

At that moment – as the entire country of New Zealand began to celebrate the victory – the greatest Rugby World Cup rivalry in history was born.

The All Blacks were the champions, while France had fallen agonisingly short of the sport’s ultimate prize.

Including that famous final, the two proud rugby nations have seven times in Rugby World Cup history. France were beaten by New Zealand at Eden Park in the 2011 final as well.

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“It’s huge and it’s partly because of its history, and the history is that we’ve won more games than they have, and we’ve won three World Cup finals and they’ve been in three and lost them all,” Kirk told RugbyPass.

“It’s different when you get to the World Cup final. We’ve got a significantly better record than they have and overall, over a long period of time, we’ve certainly won more games.

“But every French team seems to have the ability to beat every All Black team on the day, which you couldn’t say for a lot of other countries.

“We’ve always been very wary of the French and very respectful and very knowledgeable about their capabilities.”

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New Zealand and France will write another chapter into the history books of their rivalry on Friday when they meet in the opening Test of the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

Les Bleus have fallen short of World Cup glory in the decider on three occasions, including the 1987 and 2011 match-ups with the Kiwis. They were also beaten by Australia in ’99.

But this year could be something special for the French, or at least that’s the expectation and belief of many rugby fans around the world.

Head-to-Head

Last 5 Meetings

Wins
3
Draws
0
Wins
2
Average Points scored
25
28
First try wins
40%
Home team wins
100%

France has been “the best team” in the world for quite some time, and they’re favoured to break their World Cup finals drought in front of their home fans next month.

“This World Cup is even more challenging. I think the French team that is playing here, I think it’s fair to say, I would certainly say this is the best French team since the team we played against,” Kirk added.

“1987 was a wonderful team. Names like Serge Blanco and Philippe Sella and others, so very well-known players.

“But this team is also outstanding. But the first match of the tournament and the first All Blacks match against France, it’s sort of crucial and it isn’t.

“It’s crucial for confidence, momentum and continuing to build team tactics and learn from what’s happening… which is always really important in a World Cup so I hope the All Blacks win and I hope it’s the beginning of a process of building on every previous game.

“But if they don’t win, it actually doesn’t make that much difference to their opportunities to get to the final because whatever happens, France and New Zealand are going to play one of South Africa and Ireland.

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“In the quarterfinals, those four teams match up, and those are the four best teams in the world. So it doesn’t really matter who they play, if we play South Africa or Ireland, we’ve got to beat them.

“But everyone likes bragging rights, everyone likes the confidence in yourself and the ability to go all the way. I’m very much hoping New Zealand wins but I think it’s gonna be very tough.

“I think France is probably the best team in the tournament coming into the tournament on form so we’ll see what happens.”

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J
JW 6 hours ago
Does South Africa have a future in European competition?

I rated Lowe well enough to be an AB. Remember we were picking the likes of George Bridge above such players so theres no disputing a lot of bad decisions have been made by those last two coaches. Does a team like the ABs need a finicky winger who you have to adapt and change a lot of your style with to get benefit from? No, not really. But he still would have been a basic improvement on players like even Savea at the tail of his career, Bridge, and could even have converted into the answer of replacing Beauden at the back. Instead we persisted with NMS, Naholo, Havili, Reece, all players we would have cared even less about losing and all because Rieko had Lowe's number 11 jersey nailed down.


He was of course only 23 when he decided to leave, it was back in the beggining of the period they had started retaining players (from 2018 onwards I think, they came out saying theyre going to be more aggressive at some point). So he might, all of them, only just missed out.


The main point that Ed made is that situations like Lowe's, Aki's, JGP's, aren't going to happen in future. That's a bit of a "NZ" only problem, because those players need to reach such a high standard to be chosen by the All Blacks, were as a country like Ireland wants them a lot earlier like that. This is basically the 'ready in 3 years' concept Ireland relied on, versus the '5 years and they've left' concept' were that player is now ready to be chosen by the All Blacks (given a contract to play Super, ala SBW, and hopefully Manu).


The 'mercenary' thing that will take longer to expire, and which I was referring to, is the grandparents rule. The new kids coming through now aren't going to have as many gp born overseas, so the amount of players that can leave with a prospect of International rugby offer are going to drop dramatically at some point. All these kiwi fellas playing for a PI, is going to stop sadly.


The new era problem that will replace those old concerns is now French and Japanese clubs (doing the same as NRL teams have done for decades by) picking kids out of school. The problem here is not so much a national identity one, than it is a farm system where 9 in 10 players are left with nothing. A stunted education and no support in a foreign country (well they'll get kicked out of those countries were they don't in Australia).


It's the same sort of situation were NZ would be the big guy, but there weren't many downsides with it. The only one I can think was brought up but a poster on this site, I can't recall who it was, but he seemed to know a lot of kids coming from the Islands weren't really given the capability to fly back home during school xms holidays etc. That is probably something that should be fixed by the union. Otherwise getting someone like Fakatava over here for his last year of school definitely results in NZ being able to pick the cherries off the top but it also allows that player to develop and be able to represent Tonga and under age and possibly even later in his career. Where as a kid being taken from NZ is arguably going to be worse off in every respect other than perhaps money. Not going to develop as a person, not going to develop as a player as much, so I have a lotof sympathy for NZs case that I don't include them in that group but I certainly see where you're coming from and it encourages other countries to think they can do the same while not realising they're making a much worse experience/situation.

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