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LONG READ 'If the South Africans are in, they need to be all in'

'If the South Africans are in, they need to be all in'
8 months ago

There is a sense with the South Africans in European competition after the weekend of a guest being handed a free ticket to the art gallery only to turn up and throw a pot of paint over the prize exhibit.

The decision by the Bulls to put out a shadow side at Northampton for a Champions Cup quarter-final felt like an act of rugby vandalism.

The European knockout stages have produced some of the great occasions of the professional era. High-wire cross-continental classics that could have gone any which way. Epics of the ovoid genre.

The second-string Bulls were blown away by Northampton Saints in Saturday’s Champions Cup quarter-final (Photo by PA)

Yet from the moment Jake White named his Bulls team any prospect of the clash between the top side in England and the top side in South Africa joining the classics evaporated. Jeopardy left the building.

Northampton’s fans did not care, of course. They loved seeing the scintillating Saints rack up 59 points at Franklin’s Gardens and coast through to the semi-final. But for the armchair viewer and the Champions Cup itself White’s call to leave 11 Springboks back at home was bitterly disappointing.

Injuries may have played a part – we will find out exactly how much when the Bulls director of rugby reveals his team to play Munster in the URC on home soil this weekend – but there was clearly a calculation made.

It is legitimate to ask what is the point of having them in the Champions Cup if they are only going to demean it when it comes to the showpiece games.

Central to it was the reasoning the Champions Cup was not the Bulls’ priority.

South Africa is a magnificent rugby nation, one which has spawned the back-to-back world champions and one whose playing diaspora enriches so many countries around the world.

But it is legitimate to ask what is the point of having them in the Champions Cup if they are only going to demean it when it comes to the showpiece games.

Imagine if the same thing had happened in football’s Champions League this week.

Had Arsenal sent a B team to Bayern Munich because Mikel Arteta thought his side might not win in Germany and wanted to preserve his primary resources for the Premier League title run-in, there would have been merry hell. Likewise if Pep Guardiola had done the same against Real Madrid.

The Bulls might still not have won at Northampton even with the A-listers but White should have given it a go at least.

Sharks
Werner Kok’s Springbok-laden Sharks beat Edinburgh in Durban to reach the Challenge Cup semi-finals, but they cannot reach the URC play-offs (Photo Steve Haag Sports/Gallo Images)

The introduction of South African teams was always sold as a route to monetise European competition but the irony is after last weekend it might end up impoverishing it.

Broadcasters TNT have still not re-signed to screen the Champions Cup next season.

When they eventually do, the sum of money EPCR accept from them will quite likely reflect the fact a prime-time Saturday evening showdown was rendered a one-sided mismatch because of the selection white flag raised by the Bulls. Why would any broadcaster want to pay top dollar for second tier?

Rugby, with its demands, is a game of personnel rotation through the season and clubs have put out weakened teams many times before in the tournament but only ever for the pool stage.

The knockout stages, where everything is on the line, should always showcase the best against the best.

After swapping the time zone nightmare of Super Rugby for what was supposedly a more manageable alternative, the South Africans still feel like an artificial add-on to the Champions Cup.

If the South Africans aren’t going to play ball because of the logistics of a draw they do not fancy then EPCR has a serious problem.

It was always a contentious decision to allow the franchises in. If they are only going to offer a ghostly presence then the argument for exorcism will grow stronger.

Two seasons in, after swapping the time zone nightmare of Super Rugby for what was supposedly a more manageable alternative, the South Africans still feel like an artificial add-on to the Champions Cup.

The buy-in domestically has been patchy. The 7,500 crowd for the Bulls’ last-16 tie against Lyon in Pretoria – another trans-continental blowout the previous week only with the boot on the other foot – was a sorry sight at Loftus Versfeld. There were a promising 27,660 at the 55,000-capacity DHL Stadium in Cape Town for the Stormers’ game against last season’s winners La Rochelle the same weekend, however.

The fact is, for many, the Currie Cup, an intrinsic part of South African rugby’s DNA, is viewed much more fondly than this lukewarm long-distance love affair.

Of course new ventures like this need time to bed in. Eight years on from the Southern Kings and the Cheetahs’ pioneering entry into the Pro12, that experiment can be judged a success. South Africa’s addition to what is now the URC has added depth to the competition.

A level up, maybe this can work too but for it to do so there need to be changes.

South Africa need a helping hand with the scheduling. An end to the back-to-back scheduling of the round of 16 and the quarter-final would be beneficial. But most importantly there has to be a change of mindset.

Manie Libbok, Stormers
The Stormers beat the Bulls to win the inaugural URC back in 2022 (Photo by Rodger Bosch /Getty Images)

No one is pretending it is straightforward travelling 8,000 miles to play on another continent in an alternative hemisphere but plate tectonics are not going to bring the continents much closer in the short term.

A knockout tie in Europe cannot bring with it the attitude that defeat is inevitable.

Perhaps the fate which befell a full-strength Stormers side last season when they went down 42-17 to Exeter in the quarter-final played on White’s mind with the side he fielded. But as La Rochelle proved in winning in Cape Town this season, a cross-continental away assignment need not spell the end of days.

The South Africans only have to look back to the pool stage when the Stormers won at Stade Francais and the Bulls at Bristol to know what is possible.

The Bulls and the Lions have both also won twice on the road in Europe in the URC this season.

With finite playing resources and an 11-month season, maybe it has to be a question of targeting tournaments but when a franchise is more committed to URC success than it is to the Champions Cup it needs its head wobbling.

In the northern hemisphere, even allowing for the glitz of the Top 14, it is European competition where a good side becomes great.

With all due deference to the URC, the Stormers’ title in 2022 was of only passing note. The day they go on to lift the Champions Cup is the day they have really arrived as a force on the distant continent.

Perhaps it is because a South African franchise has yet to go beyond the last eight that the significance has not registered fully. But they are never going to do so as long as they choose the Bulls route.

If South Africa are going to be in, they need to be all in.

Comments

50 Comments
J
John 243 days ago

Speaking of scheduling, why can’t the SA teams play both away pool games and both home games back to back? Say, two home in December and two away in January. That will save a lot of travelling. It shouldn’t be that hard to arrange.

A
Andrew 245 days ago

Lets compare apples with apples. Lyon sent weak team the week before, but nobody raised an eyebrow. Give the South African teams a few years to build their depth, then you will be moaning that the teams are too strong.

f
fl 243 days ago

I think no one is going to moan that the SA teams are too strong.

C
CK 246 days ago

Exeter were thumped by 38 points. And they only had to hop on a train.

J
JW 246 days ago

What was the excuse for the other knockout blowouts then? Does the result not prove the Saints were just so much better? Wise call to put your eggs in one basket when you’ve got 2 comps simultaneously finishing.

D
DL 246 days ago

Oh wow… “But as La Rochelle proved in winning in Cape Town this season, a cross-continental away assignment need not spell the end of days.”

La Rochelle actually proved quite the opposite. After traveling to Cape town and back they (back-to-back and current champs) got mercilessly thumped the next week. If travel is not the reason, why else would a full-strength powerhouse like La Rochelle get dumped on their @r$e$ one week later?

J
JW 246 days ago

Same complaint SA had playing in SR after going on tour twice a year (and probably still do being in URC).

R
RT 247 days ago

Bulls disrespected the Northampton supporters and the competition. Decide quickly, fully in or out.

J
JW 246 days ago

Does that include the Challenge Cup or is it just OK for English sides to not care about that?

A
Awie 247 days ago

Bulls fan here, and agree 100% with the conclusion (and little else) of this article. SA sides should absolutely f-off from the champs cup until we get fair scheduling, equal support for travel arrangements and home semis. You know, like all the european teams get.

J
JW 246 days ago

Make the URC the prized crown every european team wants to fight for.

W
Wayneo 247 days ago

Blah, blah, blah Marmite!


If anybody thinks SA is not taking this competition seriously then you are just a clueless full of crap rugby civilian so don’t be surprised when we don’t take your bitching & whining seriously.


I have to ask, who are the people that are not taking this competition seriously? Is it the SA Clubs that are going through hell in a handbasket just to put out teams every week or is it the NH clubs who need to hire hundreds of foreign players just to make up their numbers and be competitive? What about the NH clubs that have been sending second & third string teams out before SA clubs joined?


By the way, if you bothered to have a look at how many foreign players playing for NH clubs, you will quickly realize that this is not a “European” competition it’s an “Internation” competition.


This is just the foreign players playing for NH clubs in the semifinals:


Toulouse has a squad of 66 players, 25 (38%) not born in France.

Leinster has a squad of 65 players, 5 (8%) not born in Ireland.

Northampton has a squad of 59 players, 10 (17%) not born in England.

Gloucester has a squad of 57 players, 16 (28%) not born in England.

Harlequins has a squad of 73 players, 17 (23%) not born in England.

Bennetton has a squad of 59 players, 23 (39%) not born in Italy.

Clermont has a squad of 72 players, 24 (33%) not born in France.


Total 120 foreign players playing for 7 NH clubs and more players than the entire playing squads of the Bulls & Stormers combined (112).


Next year SA will be fully paid-up members of the EPCR, and when SA will have the finances to enable us to keep our top players and get the OS players back playing for our clubs.


Enjoy the semis & finals being played in the NH while it lasts guys, in future NH clubs will have to travel all the way to places like Loftus to play the Bulls at their home ground. Believe me when I say that it will suck big time and on top of it, they won’t have a hope in hell of winning a game there.


You all saw how unpleasant an experience it was for Saracens to travel to SA and then play the Bulls at Loftus earlier in the season. Last season Leinster suffered their biggest ever defeat in the URC to the Bulls 62 - 7 at Loftus. Thousands of frothing at the mouth hillbillies yelling and screaming at you at 1,350m altitude is never a pleasant experience so be careful who you bitch and whine about.

T
Turkish 247 days ago

Pot Kettle, the English and French teams have done it for years.

W
WK 247 days ago

Forgive my ignorance, I might not fully understand so would appreciate clarification: Didn’t the Bulls have to fly with three different carriers, paid for by the South African Rugby Union, whilst Edinburgh got a chartered flight sponsored by EPCR?


Also, as far as I understand it South African teams don’t yet share in the revenue from the competition and are not allowed to host Semi-finals or Finals at home. Surely if everyone wants South Africans to “take the competition seriously” then they must make South Africans feel welcome, allow them to share in the revenue, and give them the same levels of access as the teams from the other countries.


Just a reminder that South Africa has a large and passionate Rugby audience. Just by virtue of our teams being a part of these competitions means that more of us are likely to watch the knockout games, even if our teams haven’t qualified. It would be silly to alienate such a large audience by making them feel unwelcome.

C
CL 247 days ago

If your facts are correct, then I am all in with you Warren!!

E
Ed the Duck 247 days ago

So look I am not an advocate of the way things are currently set up in the EPCR comps at present by any stretch but your point about Edinburgh using an EPCR sponsored charter flight seems far fetched! Happy to stand corrected if you can source your information though.


The sporting set up however is not working. The scheduling of ties must change to allow travel arrangements to be timely and the home tie advantage is out of sync for all teams but particularly SA teams at present. That said, no one can expect to just rock up as the new guys and expect an equal share of the pot that has been already established. I’m sure there will be a negotiated path to full revenue share over time. And if there isn’t then SARU need to hire me as a consultant…

B
Bull Shark 248 days ago

First of all. This guy is very much behind the curve. All the bleating, whingeing, whining and moaning took place days ago already. Not adding anything to the topic other than more bleating, whingeing, whining and moaning. 🍼


Second of all, not one mention of the fact that South African teams can’t get home semi finals or finals. The tournament was undermined and devalued by the administrators. 🤡


Thirdly, football teams often have to juggle selections in mid week games, premier games, champions league games etc. and will from time to time prioritize certain titles over others. 🐒


And lastly FEK Neil, and anyone else for that matter, for insisting on telling teams how to manage themselves. If they make what is largely a business decision that suits them and doesn’t suit you - tough shite. 💩


It’s not rocket science as to why the Bulls did what they did. If this guy is too slow to figure it out (and is deliberately not mentioning one of the key reasons why) then he isn’t a journalist. He should join the rest of us pundit plebs in comments section. 🥴

f
fl 246 days ago

“Thirdly, football teams often have to juggle selections in mid week games, premier games, champions league games etc. and will from time to time prioritize certain titles over others. 🐒”


Rugby isn’t football. It has benefitted from having fewer matches, and fewer competitions, so that each match matters more.


The introduction of an ever more bloated calender is making the sport worse. All nations need decide if they are all in or all out of the competitions they currently play in.

S
Senzo Cicero 248 days ago

1. True, if that “free” ticket means access to all but the prized exhibit - EVIP only. SA cannot host semis, even if they’ve earned it (see Sharks vs ASM Clermont Auvergne at… Twickenham Stoop).

2. Why no selective outrage over Lyon doing the exact same thing a week earlier? Out of all the countries France send the most “B teams”, why nobody talking about “disrespect” and “prioritising domestic leagues” and “kicking them out”?

3. Why no mention of the Sharks fielding all of their Springboks for the second rate Challenge cup QF? No commitment?

4. Why no mention of all the SA teams qualifying for respective euro knock out comps in the two seasons they’ve been in it? How many euro teams have qualified for KO’s in their history? Can’t compete?

5. Why no mention of SA teams beating French and English giants La Rochelle and Saracens? How many euro teams have done that in their history? Add no quality?


The fact is that SA teams are only in their second season in europe, with no status and a fraction of the resources. Since joining the URC, SA has seen a repatriation of a number of players, and this will only grow once SA start sharing in the profits of competing in these comps, meaning bigger squads with greater depth and quality, meaning they don’t have to prioritise comps as they have to now - they don’t have imports from Pacifica and South America and everywhere else in between like “European” teams have - also less “Saffas” in Prem and T14, that’s what we want right?


'If the South Africans are in, they need to be all in'


True, and we have to ensure we give them the same status and resources as we give everyone else to do just that. A small compromise on scheduling will go a long way in avoiding these situations, but guess what, France and England wont compromise on scheduling because they ironically… prioritise their domestic comps, go figure!

J
JW 246 days ago

SA squads are going to diminish in size, rather both competitions format and scheduling needs to be improved like you say if things are to get better.


This author, for instance, who appears to have shot himself in the foot, says that there is not even a TV deal for next year. That in itself tells you the comp is undervalued (or compared to it’s portrayal in this article) in general.

B
Bull Shark 248 days ago

You raise a good point. Where one team, the bulls, is in a good position for the URC, another team like the sharks who isn’t, has a shot at the champions cup.

E
Ed the Duck 248 days ago

The SA sides are suffering from a bum rap here. There isn’t a side anywhere in the world that would do things differently in their shoes. They’ve been set up to fail in the EPCR comps by vested interests, with last minute intercontinental travel requirements that costs an arm and a leg to book in advance just on the possibility they might be required. And the total nonsense that denies any chance of home venues is entirely biased and absolutely unsporting.


Either EPCR, the Top14 & the Gallagher Premiership get it sorted on a fair and equitable sporting basis for ALL participants or expect the ridicule to continue.


Right now, these comps are a joke!

J
JW 246 days ago

The competition is not a joke, the criticism and anger (or whatever), ie this sort of overreaction, is a joke. It’s only a joke if you don’t want to understand and accept it.


The same happened in Super Rugby, so they fixed the games SA 1 v NZ 2 at home, SA 2 v NZ 1 away etc. Which meant even though NZ 2 might have overtaken and finished above SA 1 in the last round etc, they still had a better idea that, regardless, they would need to fly to SA somewhere.


Not saying that that scenario is best, just that you can’t understand and accept something if you aren’t told about it. Personally, I would want more about the difference in costs etc, but was just happy to accept SAs complaints in the long run.

B
Bull Shark 248 days ago

Spot on.


Amazing how this drivel from Neil Squires can even see the light of day. Biased, unbalanced and just ignorant.

J
JD 248 days ago

Good post. Hard to disagree with anything you’ve written.

J
Jeff 248 days ago

SA sides should do the right thing and leave the champions cup, they are lowering the standard with completely one sided games, not up to the right level. The greatest club tournament in the world is being banjaxed by the weak SA sides.

J
JOHN 240 days ago

The ERC was banjaxed by the English and French clubs a few years ago.

It's set up to give advantage to those clubs. It is a lessor product now than it was 10 years ago.

Having the SA teams in but not adapting the schedule to allow for the huge amount of travel is wrong, and caused the problem.


Historically winning an away ERC q final is a hard as for a European team traveling within its own country, it is an almost impossible task when you have travel from one end of the planet to the other.

M
Mid 247 days ago

Trolling is a fine art. You haven’t mastered it. And you probably won’t.

B
Bull Shark 248 days ago

You should do the right thing and open your mind to the possibility that your are a 🤡

J
JD 248 days ago

Hogwash. Look at the other blowout results and then ask who should be kicked out.

S
Senzo Cicero 248 days ago

Toulouse v Exeter - 38 points?

Leinster v La Rochelle - 27 points?

Stormers v La Rochelle 21-22 settled with last kick of game?

Stormers v La Rochelle 21-20 settled with last kick of the game?

Do yourself a favour and actually have a look at this seasons results and ask yourself whether all of the teams in one-sided games should “do the right thing and leave”. Who you gonna play?

C
Campbell 248 days ago

Remind me again ? What was the Bulls v Lyon 2nd XV score the week before?

S
Shaylen 248 days ago

Couldnt agree more. SA sides need to show more committment and really have a go at the Champions Cup. Its quite possibly the most prestigious title in Europe and SA sides need to respect that prestige and serve up their best. EPCR needs to do more to ensure that sides from South Africa and sides travelling to and from SA have a better chance in this competition. The Bulls were put in a really difficult position of having to travel there and back in one week. One could argue that this is what the SA sides signed up for and that La Rochelle didnt complain or send out weakened sides despite having to travel to SA and back and play on successive weekends but surely the situation is also unfair on La Rochelle as well and so EPCR needs to think about successive gameweeks and the travel effect of the competition

A
Andrew 245 days ago

Lyon the week before…?

C
Campbell 248 days ago

La Rochelle knew they were going to Cape Town sometime ago … so had plenty time to plan and always knew they were going to be away from home the next weekend …. So not a fair comparison

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