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LONG READ 'The French respect South Africa but they don’t admire them the way they do New Zealand'

'The French respect South Africa but they don’t admire them the way they do New Zealand'
1 year ago

Billy Vunipola said this week England have no problems being “public enemy number one” in the knockout stages of the Rugby World Cup. And so they should be relaxed in the role as the team everyone loves to hate. They’ve been playing it for years.

In 2003 then-England coach Clive Woodward declared “the other 19 countries do not want England to win this World Cup…We could list a whole load of quotes from French people, and Scottish and Welsh and Irish. It’s just something to do with being English.”

Woodward could have added Australians. When the Wallaby pair of George Gregan and Joe Roff were asked who they wanted to win the 2003 World Cup if it couldn’t be them, they replied: “Anyone but England.”

Oh well, you can’t always get what you want.

Much of this hostility is fed by historical grievances, real or imagined. Phil Bennett’s pre-match speech to his Wales team before their 1977 Five Nations match against England has become part of rugby’s folklore. “Look at what these b******s have done to Wales,” raged Bennett. “They’ve taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our houses and live in them for a fortnight every 12 months. And what have they given us? Absolutely nothing.”

Nothing? England gave Wales rugby, Mr B.

Billy Vunipola is comfortable with England’s villains tag (Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images)

Put those two reasons together and there is why the world wants to beat England. In a 2003 essay in the International Journal of the History of Sport about rugby and the Springboks, the South African writer Dean Allen concluded Afrikaners “adopted rugby as a means of heightened expression of their uniqueness and individuality free from imperial control, and indeed as an opportunity to beat the English at their own game”.

Traditionally, at least in financial muscle and player numbers, rugby’s two superpowers are England and France. England’s influence is waning given the parlous state of the domestic game, and with French rugby going from strength to strength they may soon be the only giant in the sport.

But they’ll still never evoke the same emotions among their international opponents as England; because when Les Bleus play Fiji, Wales, Canada, Argentina, Ireland, New Zealand or the Boks there are no wars or still-smouldering imperial rivalry to use as motivation.

South Africa, on the other hand, are the southern hemisphere’s England: playing a dreary, conservative, muscular rugby; too much pragmatism and not nearly enough panache.

What might a 21st century Phil Bennett rail against in the dressing room at Stade de France to fire up Wales? Boys, remember that surly Parisian waiter who once overcharged you or that alluring but enigmatic French girlfriend who dumped you – well, today we take our revenge.

Rugby is a very Anglophone sport and the French have always been – or they certainly were before the emergence of Argentina and Italy – the outsider. There was the language barrier, the difference in national character and the contrast in how France played their rugby compared to the Celts and Anglo-Saxons.

If familiarity has bred rugby contempt between the major Anglophone nations, the unfamiliarity with France has bred incomprehension. Pundits such as the erudite Benjamin Kayser are gold dust because he’s one of the few former French internationals who can shed some light for an Anglophone TV audience on some of the complexities of his compatriots.

Antoine Dupont was one of two players to be red carded when France beat South Africa in a thriller last November (Photo SYLVAIN THOMAS/Getty Images)

These mysteries have always been more pronounced in the southern hemisphere where most people might visit France once or twice in a lifetime. Even rugby players who arrive to play Tests see little of the country as they are shuttled between hotels and training grounds.

South Africa, in particular, barely know the Bleus. They have played just 17 Tests this century, whereas France have met New Zealand on 29 occasions and Australia 23. The Boks, in contrast, have played 28 Tests against both England and Wales in the same period.

Matches between France and South Africa are to be savoured therefore, not just for their rarity but also for their competitiveness. Eight points in total have separated the two sides in their last three Tests with the most recent result being a 30-26 victory for France in November.

That match generated a modicum of pre-match excitement in France but not remotely the same hype that surrounds New Zealand when they come to Paris. France holds the All Blacks in awe. They are icons: exciting, glamorous and ruthless. The French think of themselves as Europe’s answer to the All Blacks.

France, of course, have their own historical legacy to deal with but it is on the football field against the likes of Algeria, Tunisia and Senegal.

South Africa, on the other hand, are the southern hemisphere’s England: playing a dreary, conservative, muscular rugby; too much pragmatism and not nearly enough panache.

The French respect South Africa but they don’t admire them the way they do New Zealand, and nor do fear them to the same extent.

Perhaps that explains why France have a better record against South Africa: played 46, won 12, drawn 6 and lost 27. Against New Zealand, France have won 14, drawn once and lost 48. It has been suggested France are the All Blacks’ bogey team. Nonsense, They’ve notched a handful of memorable victories, including two in the World Cup, but these are the exceptions in an otherwise long list of losses.

Remarkably, France and South Africa have met only once before in the World Cup: the 1995 semi-final in Durban, when it rained cats and dogs in the morning and King’s Park was more paddling pool than rugby pitch. The Springboks won 19-15 but there are many French fans who swear to this day Abdel Benazzi splashed over for a try in the dying minutes that was never awarded.

Few of the players on Sunday were alive in 1995. The match is history. But not emotional history. How much easier would it be for Rassie Erasmus to motivate his men if the Boks were playing New Zealand or, better still, England.

Rugby World Cup Erasmus Flannery
Rassie Erasmus has stoked the fires in the media this week (Photo Michael Steele/Getty Images)

France, of course, have their own historical legacy to deal with but it is on the football field against the likes of Algeria, Tunisia and Senegal. When France and Morocco met in the semi-final of last year’s World Cup, one French historian said that for the latter the motivation was a ‘desire for revenge’.

On Sunday the French will play with a different ball against a nation from the other end of Africa. The fact that there is no ‘history’ between the two protagonists won’t dampen the  atmosphere in the Stade de France, which is sure to be electric. A World Cup semi-final beckons and, what’s more, it might be against England. What more motivation does any international rugby team need?

Comments

59 Comments
C
CC 583 days ago

I think England & Boks are gonna meet in the finals!!!!

C
CC 583 days ago

The last night match between Ireland & All Blacks, l feel sorry for lreland the Ref was absolutely not on their side, that Ref was supporting All Blacks, so he was the 16th player, shame on him. I wish he could have opportunity when he gets home & watch that match again & rate himself!!!!!

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CC 583 days ago

Can anyone help me here, is it the standard rule or binding law, when all these Teams displaying their, Haka the opponent shouldn’t warm themselves up & must stand still & watch while the other team is warming themselves by displaying this Haka

J
JW 582 days ago

They can do whatever they want.


You realise there was a heat wave and theyre already warm right? They will wear a tracksuit and go back to the sidelines, and sometimes excercise after, in cold conditions.


It's a challenge though, so when teams have indicated theyre not going to except it, I seen the dance performed indoors (the challenge goes both ways) and not waste time on the field.

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Ian 584 days ago

Pleased to be playing the Irish and not the boks tomorrow..

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Flankly 586 days ago

John Smit said that the refs "don't dig the Boks". And the breaking news is that the French don't either?


Fair enough. But they seem happy enough to pay saffas big bucks to play in the Top 14, and to pick them for the national team. I guess digging and picking winners is not the same thing.

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Bob Marler 585 days ago

In fact, unless SA and France are up against each other - France has always been very hospitable and friendly towards Afrique du Sud. Possibly because of the shared dislike for England as common foe and the special rivalry with the ABs.

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Poe 586 days ago

France love the beautiful one. The English and boks content themselves with an ugly win. It's a matter of class.

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Boergundy 586 days ago

I have no problem with this "journalist's" opinion that France don't respect the Boks the same way that they do NZ. However, this person is certainly not someone that watches Springbok rugby, because only someone that doesn't watch Bok rugby can ignore the changes in playing style that have been implemented in the last few years. I was at the match in Marseille last year and all of the French spectators that spoke to us after the game acknowledged that we played the better and more attractive rugby. In addition, I read the comments on a lot of French sites and they said the same, the Boks did all the pretty stuff while the French played the tight, "boring" game. Lastly, I have been watching Springbok rugby since the early seventies. Our boring style of a few years ago is not our DNA, anybody that says that has never heard of or seen Danie Gerber, Ray Mordt, Carel du Plessis, etc.

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NB 586 days ago

Speaking as an analyst of trends in the game, I can confirm that SA have made great strides in balance over the past 18 months-two years, developing their attack with the likes of Willemse, Libbok and Moodie, Arendse.

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Poe 586 days ago

I saw the boks run the ball once.

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DM 586 days ago

Don't even want to try to pick it, just know it's going to be a damn good game, ABS v ireland as well, I hope the ensuing Semis and final aren't too much of a drop off.

C
Chris 586 days ago

They are in for a BIG surprise if they think we are going to play a dreary brand of rugby 😂 . I think the boys are going to Attack attack attack like never before. If Manie starts, then they better fasten their seatbelts 🤗 If pollard starts then we will play more conservatively for 60 mins, soften them up and then unleash.

C
CG 586 days ago

Go France

IT will be a horrible tragedy if the saffers win

For the sake of rugby and all things descent and holy, please god make the evil AWB boys choke on humble pie.

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Bob Marler 584 days ago

AWB boys? Wtf?


I remember when I had my first beer.

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GrahamVF 586 days ago

Do you mean all things descend? That would make sense of your thought process. It looks like your school system is failing.

B
Boergundy 586 days ago

I am quite sure that Kolisi, Am, De Allende, Kolbe, etc. are not AWB boys.

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Snash 586 days ago

No S in decent mate, descent is downward like your iq

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Jonathan 586 days ago

It's going to be a hell of a game. On neutral ground I'd back SA for the win, but the hosts at home are going to be hard to beat, not to mention the pressure on the officials. France will lead for most of the match, but SA will close the gap in the second half. I think France will hold on, but it'll be a game of inches, and some controversy.

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PaPaRumple 586 days ago

Man the NH media and fans need to calm down. You guys have been playing good rugby for 2 years and act like you have revolutionised the sport. It's embarrassing how you lot are not used to winning at this game.

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GrandDisse 586 days ago

Re> Remarkably, France and South Africa have met only once before in the World Cup: the 1995 semi-final in Durban, when it rained cats and dogs in the morning and King’s Park was more paddling pool than rugby pitch. The Springboks won 19-15 but there are many French fans who swear to this day Abdel Benazzi splashed over for a try in the dying minutes that was never awarded.


Not only that denied try, one can also talk about the scrums deliberately collapsed without sanctions.

B
Bob Marler 586 days ago

Who gives a continental who France admires?


Just the other day France couldn’t string 3 wins together against tier one teams. Ireland neither. They’re doing well now. Yay. Get over yourselves. That’s the power of the Euro and the economics of the game doing wonders for the game of rugby. And in France/Ireland. Celebrate it.


But fuck you for calling SA rugby boring. That’s why you have your team/s. Go support them. Enjoy them. You don’t have to enjoy SA rugby. It’s not for you. We don’t give a shit what you like.


I grew up watching Stefan Terblanche score 4 tries against a hapless Ireland. And we played France 17 times because they were comparable to Italy in todays terms. Who wanted to watch the Boks easily dispatch shit Nh teams on a regular basis. That’s boring.


It’s for this reason. This pathetic arrogance that I sincerely hope that all the NH teams lose this weekend. Some humble pie is needed in large quantities I feel.


Nigel is a poes.

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Graham 584 days ago

Hey man - get real - a poes is at least useful. Not so our Nige baby.

A
Alain 586 days ago

Now can you say it again without shaking your feet? It seems you are using the same steroids than the Boks! Not very healthy Thanks

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RS 586 days ago

give this man a bells.

boet I agree with EVERYTHING you said hey!


everyone including WR is so actively trying to get NH teams to win, its pathetic man. Bok ruggas is alles but boring.


last statement deserves a Nobel Prize!

D
Drew 586 days ago

Pffft. Who cares? Boks to win this by 8.

B
Bob Marler 586 days ago

Who gives a continental who France admires?


Just the other day France couldn’t string 3 wins together against tier one teams. Ireland neither. They’re doing well now. Yay. Get over yourselves. That’s the power of the Euro and the economics of the game doing wonders for the game of rugby. And in France/Ireland. Celebrate it.


But fuck you for calling SA rugby boring. That’s why you have your team/s. Go support them. Enjoy them. You don’t have to enjoy SA rugby. It’s not for you. We don’t give a shit what you like.


I grew up watching Stefan Terblanche score 4 tries against a hapless Ireland. And we played France 17 times because they were comparable to Italy in todays terms. Who wanted to watch the Boks easily dispatch shit Nh teams on a regular basis. That’s boring.


It’s for this reason. This pathetic arrogance that I sincerely hope that all the NH teams lose this weekend. Some humble pie is needed in large quantities I feel.


Nigel is a poes.

D
DO 586 days ago

The arrogance and lack of rugby knowledge of this journalist is exactly the same reason people dislike England and want them to lose. What an idiotic article. "Perhaps that explains why France have a worse record against the All Blacks"...every teams worst record is against the All Black's you muppet, and every teams 2nd worst record is against the Springboks. Because they have been 1 and 2 in the world more than any other sides...its not because of some grievance or lack thereof you're trying to make up. Go write about soccer, or better yet don't write about anything.

S
SR 586 days ago

South African rugby boring? That's not he view down under S/A All Blacks matches are always relished and we play them every year.I England want to be less disliked they should try keeping their mouths shut off the field and playing better on it.

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NE 586 days ago

With the chief clown, Erasmus, persisting in making a fool of himself, SA rugby will always be a bit less than boring. Have yet to meet an Australasian that doesn't laugh (or at least grin) when it comes to the schoolboy level bleats that the Erasmus/Nienaber couple bleat before every fame. I suppose knowing that the controlling body will do everything possible to ensure SA wins helps. How relevant would WR be sans an African continent team? Enough said.

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Danny 587 days ago

The arrogance of this journalist is maybe the real reason that the England team is the team everyone wants to beat.

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Poe 586 days ago

Nah mate. You forget your players and coaches past and present.

C
CT 587 days ago

The French are mezmorized by the AB's however the reality right now is that they going to get a lekker snotklap from the Boring Boks

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Peter 586 days ago

Way to go CT

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Blanco 587 days ago

The ignorance of some Springbok fans to French rugby is incredible. Many are not taking the massive threat on Sunday seriously enough. There are 4 teams which are leading contenders for the title. Of the four the best is France because they are at home.

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Graham 584 days ago

Ignorance to??? Don't know where you got your schooling mate - but ask for your money back. Or perhaps English is your third language?

m
metal ghost 586 days ago

Why do fans have to take a game seriously enough? That has zero bearing on the result . Springbok fans are fans of rugby so we know quite a bit about France thank you .

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CT 586 days ago

It's not really important if the fans take it seriously or not,the team is taking it very seriously thats what counts ,my son 🐒

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Bob Marler 586 days ago

Whatever. You don’t know Jack about what SA supporters think about France.


I’ll tell you what I think. Losing to the French is unthinkable. Rugby isn’t as important in France as it is in SA. And it certainly isn’t steeped in nearly the same history and legacy. It’s something that’s become recently popular in France. Whereas in SA (and NZ ) it means something very special that not even you would understand.


So good luck to on Sunday. This is probably the biggest game in French rugby history - in the making. It’s another WC QF for the boks. And I suspect the French are going to encounter what England came to learn in 2019… just ask Mitchell.


Cheers.

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JP 587 days ago

No South-African fan takes the French lightly. They are in the top 4 for a reason. Definately not the best as world ranking indicates but still a force to recon with.


South-African culture on the other hand is to take serious matters and make it comical. It's not being ignorant or disrespectful bit rather how we handle serious matters. The fact that you complain about ignorance should be sufficient proof that France is worth the discussion for South-Africans and that the French are worthy opponents.


May the best team win.

C
CT 587 days ago

Of course we take them seriously with a dose of humour Turdlaugh

J
Jacque 587 days ago

What a load of utter gobshite.

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